The Childhood He Survived, the Silence He Carried | Rich Dunning.

Hey, one more thing before you go.Let me ask you something.What if the very thing that helped you survive your childhood became the thing keeping you from fully living your adult life?Today, we're exploring how the experiences we rarely speak about can quietly influence our relationships, our choices, and even the people we become.And perhaps by the end of this conversation, you'll find yourself thinking about something you've carried through your life without ever questioning where it began.For Rich Dunning, silence wasn't simply the absence of words.It was something he learned early.Growing up surrounded by violence, poverty, and homelessness, Rich discovered ways to protect himself that would follow him for decades.He built a career, became a father, and created a life that appeared successful.But beneath it all, there was a story he had never told fully.And it would take him 15 years to find those words.So stay tuned.I'm Michael Herst.And this is one more thing before you go.Today I'm sitting down with Rich Dunning.He's a father.He's a longtime medical device industry leader and the author of the memoir Silence Was My First Language.Rich spent decades building a professional and personal life while carrying experiences from childhood that he says continued to influence him in ways he didn't always recognize.His journey includes fatherhood, the addiction, relapse, recovery, the long process of understanding the person behind the life he built.But this isn't about a conversation or professional success or promoting a book.It's about the stories we keep to ourselves, the ways we learn to protect ourselves, and what can happen when we finally begin to understand the experiences we've carried for so long and how we might have the opportunity to fix them.Rich, welcome to the table, man.It's a pleasure to have you here.

Michael, it's an honor and well said.I am so honored to be on your show today.Thank you so much.

Well, I mean, your story is an amazing journey in life, and the honor is mutual.I find that, you know, individuals that.That have experienced what you have gone through and what you continue to go through, because I know it's a daily battle.It's not something that you just gotta go, oh, well, I figured it out, and then let it go.It always sits there like a little shadow in the back end.So I know that it takes constant work to keep it, keep it abreast, to keep it, you know, to keep it, get ahead of it, I guess, a little bit more.

Yeah, you're absolutely.It's something you just don't turn off on a certain day, that.And then you can move on.With life, that's for sure.I know for me, when I think of you, even of my title, Silence was my first language.It truly was.It was my armor, essentially.It was the way I knew how to survive.The problem is when you finally have, you know, the way with all to, to break away from the trauma and the, the violence and everything else that came along with it.No one ever asked me to take off my, my vest or my armor of silence, nor was I taught to.It's almost like, and by all means, I'm no military person, but I can understand what that person coming home from war and trying to rejoin civilization, it's not that easy.And I kind of equate it to that because now you're asked to begin life under these very different circumstances from what you knew for 17 plus years.And okay, now it's time to live a normal life.But I never lived one, so I don't know how to do that.

Well, I mean, you fought your own.It's a different kind of war.Yeah, you know, everybody's got their own little wars within themselves.They got their own little wars within their families, within their environment.You know, you don't have to wield a sword, so to speak, and go on a battlefield because you have a battlefield at home.And a lot of people don't understand that.That's a daily existence for many people.But before, before we talk about your career, your memoir and all the years that followed, can I go back a little bit and meet the little boy at the beginning of the story?Good stories always start at the beginning, right?

The origin story.

Yeah, exactly.Where'd you grow up?

So I grew up in New York City in the Bronx, one of the five boroughs in New York.And you know, it was a very tough place to live.We leave.It was my mom, my biological stepdad.They both actually, literally came off the boat from the Caribbean, the Dominican Republic.I am first generation American.They, they had this three room basement kind of dwelling within the city.And it was a scary place, believe it or not.Although I was very happy with, with them there.It was three rooms, it was very dark.We never, I mean, we lived in poverty and there was no heat in the winter time.I remember the days.I mean, I have such cinematic memories of my entire life.But thinking back to the age of three years old, I remember the times where it was cold, that we all had to kind of go into the kitchen area, turn on the burners to keep us warm.But the consequences of that were the roaches would Come out in full force along with the racks.So we literally had to cover ourselves from head to toe and wrap ourselves mummified so we wouldn't get bitten or crawled all over.But oftentimes it was just not successful.And those are some memories that just ick me out today.They.They stay with you forever, man, you know?

Well, yeah, like a horror movie that you're watching can never escape from.

And we're not talking about one or two roaches.We're talking about dozens and dozens of roaches.

Families upon families.

Yeah.

Generational roaches.Yeah, that.I mean, early years.What if I can say this.What a horrendous first picture of your childhood that comes to your mind.Yeah.That have an early memory like that and have to remember that and keep popping up to you.It obviously changes who you are and who you become and.And where you develop from that.You described your childhood in some of the notes and some of the things that I've read that included some very difficult circumstances like you just spoke about and I walked into as a cop.I was in a lot of that environment.Even in Colorado, you'd be surprised.It's not just in big cities like New York City.It happens in smaller cities as well.And when you see somebody living like that, you know, personally, I created.I have a lot of empathy for that because my parents, as we talked about before, both my parents were alcoholics.We got.We got so many times having to come home and there's a lock on the door because they didn't pay the rent, and the lights are out because they didn't pay the utilities and things like that.So I understand from that perspective, and those are memories we shouldn't all carry with us into our adulthood.

Yeah.Michael, you brought up a great point.You know, I think in our day.Well, I don't want.In our day, we're similar in Asia, more or less.The bill collectors used to come to the door, if you might remember, and they would later knock on the door.They would not stop.And that was also scary for a child, especially when you were home with the younger siblings and watching them, and they're.And they know you're home and you're supposed to be quiet and they're.They're asking you to open the door.What is those.I remember those stories and I mean those episodes when.When that would happen to me or even when my mom was home and they would come to the door, she would just tell everybody, be quiet, just until they go away.You know, as you mentioned, you know, we must have been affected.My gosh, probably over a half dozen times.I know that for sure.I've lived.I lived in more homes in my first 17 years of life.It's just nuts to even think about that.I mean, I. I even remember, like, living in a car for three, four days until we found a new home.That was one of the very first times I was homeless.I was about maybe 12 years old.I ultimately became homeless while staying in school for a good year later in life, in my later teens, because one of the things that happened was my mom was so severely beaten.He finally went to jail after so many times of, you know, just being arrested and, and being let out the next day.There was just no protection for the victim.And this time around, he got to do a whopping 13 months.But during that time, we were evicted again.And they wouldn't take a teenager my age.I was 16.And I convinced my mom, no, you guys gotta go.And I kept my clothes in a gym locker.I was an athlete at school.One of the only safest places was on the baseball field.And I would shower in the morning, but I lived in an abandoned train station at night with total strangers that were drinking, that smelled that it wasn't safe.I slept with one eye open and, and often, many nights I would drink myself to sleep because I was so scared.So I truly know being homeless and being evicted feels like Michael, that yourself does.Yeah.

And, you know, as a, as a note to that, that just shows the, the tenacity of people to come through something like that and the fortitude and the ability to see good at the end of a tunnel and light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.And, you know, you had the opportunity to, to move out of there and to grab something and, and pull yourself to where you're at today.And I think that in itself is, is, you know, kudos, major kudos.

Well, I appreciate that.You know, my friends and I, we talk about my life often, especially since the book has been out.And a lot of them don't know the real meat potatoes in a story till they wrote it.And they're just shocked.Especially my police officer good friends.They're like, I arrest people like you for a living or you should be dead or on drugs, that you are the rare account of someone who broke out and broke the generational cycle that is just completely a disaster of a human being.

Absolutely.

It doesn't mean that that person was not living inside me, however, because I did do a lot of Damage in my, as an adult as well.

Yeah, but you were, you, you're working those.I say the kudos because I, I've seen where it goes the opposite direction and, and you know, it, you, it, it's like the proverbial fork in the road.You can continue in that path on the left hand side or the right hand side, whichever one, you can continue that or take the other path.And you know, luckily you had the opportunity to take the other path and that's what brought you to this table to have this conversation.

It's been a blessing, no doubt.

Who are the people that you remember most that maybe clearly from those early years that maybe was there someone who showed you kindness or when you least expected it, or somebody that gave you that spark to like hold on and don't go down that other path?

Yeah, that's a very good question.I, I think I would, I would probably see where I lived was.It's, it's like you weren't safe at home, you weren't safe at school because of the violence and you certainly weren't safe in the streets because of where I grew up.And yes, I was fortunate to have three different people walk me through my younger years.One being this wonderful teacher who comes into my life and, and really has an impact on me.I was always a good student, but I don't know why, but I was just always, I was the first one to graduate high school and college first, for example.But I mean she was just kind during my, my junior years, junior junior high school years and our middle school.She was always looking out for me.But it's something, you know, I guess back then I hope that.And again, I always pray that I hope things change.Now I don't, I'm not that confident that it has.But back then I know that my instructors looked the other way.It's just, I think for part of it was because they were trying to protect themselves and trying to make it home to their families after teaching in a not safe environment or neighborhood.I don't know, but she was special.And then this, this young man was about, he was already 21.I met him when I was 14 or so.He would be in my life for three, four years.He was a musician.I met him.He, he knew that I loved music, got me into the whole music scene and became a real mentor for me.He's still in my life today, by the way.He lives in Arizona as well.And he, he was pivotal in accountability and responsibility.He never wanted to hear bullshit if I needed to be somewhere with him.I was expected to.There was no excuses.He was one that really ingrained in me.Although it would take years for me to, to really understand that that just because you went through something doesn't mean you have to be a victim or that your life doesn't have to define what you do today.I ultimately would let him down at the age of 17 when my world was crashing.I was living homelessly, what have you, and he would, he would teach me a life lesson and as a result would leave my life for a good, I would say almost decade until I came back and asked for forgiveness.As, as, as I matured as an adult.It wasn't healthy, but I matured.And ever since then, of course he's been in my life.And then, you know, lastly, I would say that, you know, my.A good, a good coach that I had in college was really positive to me and you know, kind of got it because when I broke out of the quote unquote ghetto and was introduced to this whole other world of normal people around me, I didn't get it.It was like inserting an alien into like normal circumstances.I didn't know this world.So he kind of introduced me to.I was almost acclimating into the new, to the real world and what really, what the real world is really like in terms of people are kind to each other and can be kind to each other.

So yeah, very cool.I mean that in itself is like a, an amazing opportunity for you to realize that you can be.When I say normal, I say that with caution because I think normal is today exactly better than where you were.I got to tell you something, I mentioned in my community knows this and we talked about it here a little bit ago and you know, this, you know, working.I worked domestic violence for a task force for four years.I mean I did domestic violence during my career in law enforcement prior to that, but it usually was when we got called to it and then so they asked me to be part of this task force.It was Multi Agency 1.It was not that any domestic violence is good because it could be both verbal as well as physical and in circumstance.This was the worst of the worst.Again, not that any of it is any good, because it isn't.But you know, these guys were the, the worst of them and I.The the what caught my attention in your book, the title, the memoir is silent.You know, silence is your first language to me is unique in several perspectives.Number one, as we start unfolding your life story, it makes Sense to me, because every domestic violence I went to, every one of those domestic disputes, that included.And when I say domestic dispute, that's husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, husband, wife, wife, you know, whatever it happened to be.And kids included.And watching kids being used as pawns between adults, who should know better than to do that, or where we go to domestic disputes, where the.And forgive me if any of this brings up anything, obviously flag me.But, you know, watching kids scream and run out the door because mom's getting beat up again and her arms broken and things like this, that sticks with somebody for a long time.And what I have found in most of those calls, I would say at least 95% of those calls, the key word to all, all of that was when we went to them was silence.Nobody wanted to talk.Nobody wanted to talk about it.What happened here?What did he do to you?You'd get short quip, I fell, or this or that.The kids, they were told to keep their mouth shut in silence.Everything was silence.It took a lot to have to kind of bring somebody to a point where they could have a conversation where you can help them.So the title to your book, Silence was my first language.To me, it brought back these memories of these calls that I went on throughout my career.Knowing people going to the same house over and over again, by the way, until the domestic violence laws took place where Colorado is a three strike.If you do three strikes three times, we come back for the same thing.You're in jail for the rest of your life.Which I agree with.

And that's a more progressive approach than most because unfortunately, that's not the case in many states.

Well, and I.And I'm aware of that.You will find an individual that grew up in that environment that I have a. I have a. I won't say a passion.That's probably the wrong word.But I was dedicated to my job in regard to handling those situations so that it didn't happen to the victim and recognizing the victims, both adults and children, and trying to remove them from environments that they didn't need to be there with.So, again, it's a powerful title.It's a powerful phrase.When did science becomes something that you relied on in.In what did being quiet accomplish for you as a child?If you can help us understand that, it might give me a little deeper meaning as well.If you don't.If you're okay with us.

You know, you bring up such great points, and I don't think anything.Silence.The.When I started putting words to pages, for example, or to my computer.It all started as a therapy session with a therapist that I couldn't get old.I was.I was a master manipulator, but I couldn't get over on this therapist.But one of the things she had me do is like, you have such vivid memories writing down.And one word that kept coming up was silence.And I really started to examine that word and what that meant.And I think that that has a lot of meaning, not only to me, but I'm sure it would resonate with folks.Folks that are.That are either have gone through it or going through it.It's number one.You got to protect the family unit.And that.That involves being silent.You don't.You don't air your dirty laundry, no matter how horrible it is.And in a lot of cases, look, this type of violence existed every neighborhood, every.Every.Every economic background.It doesn't care what color you are.It's happening in your backyard, guys.So that's the other side of that.But we're so ashamed.And as a family unit, we don't talk about it.So we present this facade that everything's great, even though you have bruises, etc.And sometimes you may not.It could be emotional.It could be completely, you know, narcissistic.Just gaslighting behavior as well.That's a form of a demonstration.My silence started the first time hands were put on me.And that was probably a year after this quote, unquote, stepfather.I don't even want to call him a stepfather because I don't want to insult great stepfathers.This monster began his journey of abuse with me and my sister and my mom forever.And I learned very quickly that if you became invisible, that if you remain silent, especially when he's under the influence of alcohol and he was a. I mean, cocaine fueled his anger.If you watch the movie Scarface, we actually nickname him Scarface at one point after the Al Pacino character, because his behavior was very similar, and it was very scary.I mean, you know, there are moments where.I mean, just horrible moments, even under the influence of cocaine.He's now playing Russian roulette with the kids sitting around the table, and he's pulling the trigger on my mother and then pulling the trigger on himself back and forth with the bullet in there.Those are the kinds of things that you didn't go out the next day and talk about.He's just remained silent.And then here's the other component that's going to drive people nuts that live in healthy homes.Well, you have the opportunity to be away from all of that at some point of the day.Why don't you say something?Because oftentimes that person, even though it may not be real, it may seem real to the person being abused, is the provider of the family.And in a weird way, you're.Can you become conditioned to loving that person?As.As crazy as that sounds, that's the reality.You become almost like.It's almost Stockholm syndrome.You're.You're.You know, you're starting to care for your captors.In other words, that's the way I see it.This is the way I discovered my silence and how it just lasted so long, even beyond the abuse, because I didn't know how to turn off the silence and start screaming from the top of my lungs about what happened.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it would.It kept you safe as well, that you had a little bit of control.

100%.You're off the radar.Correct.

And of course.Of course, that's a pattern.It develops a pattern in your brain, and you think it then becomes normal and that.Normal.Normality.Then say that real fast, three times.Normality.

Normality, yeah.Because even when you're, you know, that you are now physically stronger, you know, by the age of 16, I was an athlete.I was built pretty strong, certainly way stronger than the man that was trying to.What that was doing all these.But in my mind, I was so afraid of him, I wouldn't even dare.

And that's unfortunate, myself.Yeah, that's unfortunate.And I mean, you brought it up a second ago that people have blinders on, and it's all across the country.It's all across the world.It happens everywhere.It's not isolated to New York City.It's not isolated to Miami.It's not isolated to Phoenix.It's not isolated to some little dinky town in the middle of Nebraska.It.It's true, you know, is present and it's there.And again, you know, you just don't talk about it.And especially with certain generations.Certain generations always teach you, you know, something like that's never talked about into anybody outside of the family or inside the family.And, you know, that's a pattern that's hard to break.And I think.Did you think writing it?Kind of almost correct me, but I think it started as like a journaling project, and it allowed you to bring it forward, put it on a piece of paper.That journaling project then turned into a river of things that started kind of Coming out.And that's how you hear your book was born.

It was.It was.Actually.I go back to two major, what I like to call fractures in my life.Late 2009 and early 2010, I had.I. I lost my brother, and he was 29 years old at the time.And a couple months later, I lost my position in corporate America to a reduction in force, which crushed me, because I thought that my job defined everything.That's what defined the man that I was, the imposter, quote, unquote, that I was.And that led to therapy a little, some therapy.I was drinking very heavily at that point.But that particular therapist, as I mentioned before, she was.She was so good in terms of getting me to talk a little bit, which I never did.And she recommended because I had such a vivid, vivid memories from the age of three.I mean, I. I literally have cinematic memories of every single detail throughout those years.So that journey started that way.And it took me from the beginning of the end of my drinking, meaning it got really bad, through my rock bottom in 2017 and into sobriety.And right after, right during COVID after, I had all of these beautiful notes that were almost written in chronological order.I. I don't.I didn't even do that on purpose.I wrote it as it was happening age to age to age.And.And then I would go online and hear some of these folks on these socials talk about what they're going through and what they've been through, or they feel like they have no help.And by this time, I had dealt with a lot.I mean, I was probably three, four years sober by the time this book was done, but I was too ashamed to even think about this publish going out, being published, but learning from those folks that were struggling and hurting and these young kids that have no voice.I said, you know, this.Enough of me.Let's take my armor off officially and show who I am to the world that if I can get off that hamster wheel and pay it forward to help someone, ask for help, or, you know, seek help, or, hey, there's a different way to live, or that again, their past doesn't have to define who they are today.It's never too late.It took me 47 years, by the way, before I got sober, that you can do it, too.And you can scream from the top of the roofs, rooftops out there and say, I need someone.I need help.Shoot, I'll come running if you need it.That's how, you know, dedicated I am to this cause.And that's God's calling for me and I truly believe that.

Congratulations on your sobriety journey for.

Yeah, it's been nine and a half years almost and it's, it's a whole other world.Living in sobriety and being able to share those moments with my wife and kids is so special.Every day is.Never take it for granted.

Nope.And you know it.When you go back on this, I think that did you learn to maybe laugh again and enjoy life again through this journey?

I don't know that I ever you how to laugh appropriately or to associate laughter, laughter with joy.But I sure as hell not to do that now.That's for sure.And you know, making memories is the most important thing that I can do from here on out.I look at my life, you know, I'm 56 now and I think about if, if all the world, if all the stars align and all the data, medical data is right, I might get 20 more years of life, hopefully.I need to make every single moment count for my family, for my friends, by creating the best of memories possible as well as giving, just providing or going forward, giving forward what I have learned.Because I think again, that's God's calling for me.That's, that's my, that's my job.

Well, you know, it's.I think that we are given a purpose in this life.Sometimes we don't realize that purpose until later.Sometimes we don't understand it or haven't seen it until it gives us a little slap in the face and says, you're supposed to be doing this.You're supposed to be doing this kind of a thing.I'm happy that you reached a point in your life that you were able to break that pattern because those patterns are hard to break, and moved into a position that, I mean, nine years sober, that's a great achievement in itself.It.Trust me, it, it.You've.You've.You've done good, man.

Thank you.And listen, it isn't easy.And for anyone who's trying to listen, I'm not going to paint that.It's rosy.There's a lot that, There's a lot that goes along with sobriety.What.Pick a drug, pick an addiction.There's a lot that goes through the journey of, of, of breaking the cycle of addiction.Right.And you know, obviously you have to surrender and take that first step, but the, the resources in the, and, and that's available out there, they need to be taken seriously and they need, and that needs to walk with you.Your family isn't going to trust you the day after because you got, you know, you can't.You.You said I'm addicted to someone.Right.That has to be earned.So it is a journey, and this should be a family journey.If family cannot be let, you know, put aside.You know, my.My wife, the lioness that she is, she.She's.She watched her husband suffer, suffer so long and didn't know what to do until she set boundaries.She's like, no, we gotta move forward without you, because you can't get your together.And, you know, it's probably the healthiest thing she ever did in terms of protecting the family unit.While I figured things out, I. I don't.I would say it probably took her.The family unit.It probably took them two and a half years to.To even start trusting me again with, you know, with things.Can I.Can I drive the children around without having a drink?Those kinds now.Thank God I never got a DUI or killed anyone or possibly killed myself.I'm lucky.There are many people that are not.And that's, you know, that's some of the shame that.That I had to deal with.I was like, I did that.And, you know, looking back at that now is all the things that you look back on say, but you got to forgive yourself too.

And, well, that's an accomplishment.I mean, it absolutely is an accomplishment.And, you know, it also shows tenacity and fortitude and dedication and love.You know, you're getting love from your wife and your kids, and they're, you know, helping you through this is a life journey.Sometimes that.That needs somebody to be able to pull us up from the front or push us back, pushes up from behind, walk beside us when they.When we just need somebody to walk beside us.And so.Yeah.Can I.Can I ask how long you guys been married?

Yeah, we just celebrated.Thank you for asking.On Friday.We just celebrated our 32nd anniversary marriage together for 35 years.And trust me, I don't deserve her when I say that I don't deserve.I don't even deserve to breathe the same air this woman braves, but she is my hero.She is.I don't know what I would do without her.I. I really don't.

I. I have to stop you right there.Recognize.You have to recognize that you deserve her or.Or the opportunity to have her in her life would never have been presented.Yeah, I learned that myself, so I'm going to share that with you.

She is a true lioness.

Yeah.

I'm so grateful for her.The What?Those kids, my kids are the way they are because of her now.Yeah, I was a dad and present at times, but, man, the, the just, I. I can't even say enough about this woman because like I said, she.The tough love and, and even just you talk about, you know, for.For better or for worse, she hung in there through some of the worst that I put her through, that's for sure.

I can tell you as an individual that's watched a lot of people break up and went to a lot of fights with the boyfriends, girlfriends, fiances, husband, wives, you know, you name it.Like I said earlier, you know, it is.How would I say this?It is a golden opportunity, a platinum opportunity when you have somebody in your life that's willing to go through those ups and downs like that and stick with you and you still come out better on the other end.All of you do.So.So, yeah, man, that's like, well, hot damn.Well done.

That's for sure.She's my best friend, you know, it.

With your childhood, obviously you go back to your childhood.That simply doesn't disappear.We talked about that.As we become adults and we grow older, our circumstances do change.We meet new people, we build new lives like you've done.Sometimes we carry ways of thinking and behaving that began long before we understood them.And I think that brings me to this next part, because we all have to learn growing up in the environment that I did.I don't drink.My wife is now eight years.Eight years sober, topless.And, and if I, If I got that wrong, I may have to go back and dub myself.You won't say every day counts, you know, you won't.Yeah, you won't tell on me about eight years sober, maybe nine years sober.So she's on the same path, you know, as you.Her father was an alcoholic as well.And, you know, it.It is.It's hard to break that cycle.But once you do and you understand and your eyes open and your heart opens and your life opens up and you kind of see what you were missing before in coming through that journey and understanding that pathway, that you belong here and that you belong in the environment that you're in, I think in itself is an amazing revelation.You survived.That's the best way to put that you're a survivor.

Yeah.Thank God.I mean, thank God there was someone just looking over my shoulder like, you know, it's not, It's.It's not his time.And I put my.Certainly put myself in situations where I shouldn't be here right now.And I don't take that for granted either, that's for sure.

Well, you.You got.You were laid off years and years and years ago.You went on to build a career spanning three decades in medical device leadership.From the outside, I imagine people saw something who was accomplished and capable and in control and so forth.What made you pick that?If I can ask you, what made you pick that?

It was almost by accident, actually.The career started as an RN in the cath lab, coronary intervention.And I used to watch you sales reps come in and just.Just take up time from our physicians and bring no value.And here we have, you know, 10 people we need to.To operate on.And, you know, these guys have no idea what that means.And I remember this is back in 1999, and I turned to my buddy and I said, you know, I can do this job.They could, you know, I have the clinical knowledge, and certainly I could carry myself in a conversation where I could sit with C suite and discuss why these tools are.Are certainly beneficial for.For this facility or facilities.And I will never forget what he said to me.He goes, well, why.Why don't you go get the job then?And I was like, well, I don't even know where to get a job like that.And back then, you know, you would have to look for jobs in the New York Times.And the first job I interviewed for, I got.And that's how I broke into medical devices in 1999.And yeah, and when I lost that job in 2009, it wasn't so much that I lost.Well, it was.But because I had a job with the competitor within two and a half weeks.So it wasn't like I was out of work.It was my ego that was destroyed.Because at that point, all I thought that my job defined me as a man.Not my family, not my kids, no one, not my friends, that it was my job.And if I didn't have identity in my job or in my career, then that was nothing.And when you have.When you live with imposter syndrome, as I probably have lived with all of my life, where is like, I don't belong in those rooms.I don't belong with my wife or in front of her parents.What if they see through me?You know, they see that kid from the ghetto who, you know, had roaches crawling all over him.Oh, we don't want none of that.That's.That's the person that was hiding behind every deal, behind every conversation at work.But yet I Completely.You know, I would constantly overachieve because I wanted to be the best that I can.Because there was another caveat to that.I was called a dog in Spanish from the ages of 7 to 17.That was my name.He would call me Pearl, which means dog.And part of that, in your mind, as an adult, you still believe you're a dog, so you're fighting that fight internally.So there were a lot of things going on in terms of, you know, me trying to succeed and prove them wrong, but at the same time, I don't belong in those rooms.It was a tornado of thoughts.

For example, I can understand that.And what a.What a butthead.I have a different word for him, but I have to be careful.You can imagine.

I know, I know he was.It's you.You become conditioned to all of these things.Like we said before, you know, I may be physically stronger than him, but I didn't see it that way.He owned me mentally even beyond the years that I did not live in.I was a full fledged adult with my own family.Here.I'm still thinking I'm a dog.

Which is to say the power of that from a mental perspective is unfortunate.And it happens.It happens to men, it happens to women, it happens to children.You know, there's.And unfortunately, I say unfortunately a lot.Apparently, unfortunately, it is also a generational intergenerational trauma carries itself forward.And you know, there are very few people who break out of that pattern of the intergenerational trauma and don't carry that forward, don't become an alcoholic or if they, they drink for a while.You, like you, you cleaned up your act.And when you clean up your act, you know, you're, you're, you're walking the straight line.And that's a testament to your child as well as to yourself.You know, you broke that pattern to realize that you don't have to be the quote dog.You know that you're not the quote dog.You're a father, you're a husband.You know who you could work any job.It's who you are is what's important.It's who you are inside and it's who you are outside.And your first job, in my opinion, my first job is my kids.My first job is father.My second job is husband.My third job is what I do for a living.And what that does is, keeps me a passion in, in my job.I have a passion for my job.And I think that you have found that nice balance in there and it gives you something to kind of strive for.Was there a moment that you realized that you'd finally kind of built a life very different from the one you known as a child?

Yeah.That didn't come until sobriety though.

Sobriety.

Yeah.Unfortunately it took that long.I knew.I mean, listen, we lived, we've been blessed that we lived an affluent life.I mean just I would have never imagined doing the things that I have done as an adult.But I was always drunk.To really enjoy it or to create those real memories, that's the problem.And I can't take those back.So I'm very grateful for my career again.Even at times today I was like, I don't even know that I deserve this career.But no, darn it, I first freaking worked hard for this career.And yes, I do belong at those meetings.I do belong at that table.My numbers over the years, I certainly showed it.Showed it where, you know, I mean there was a company that I helped take take public back in 2017, for example.These are the things that I know that I've done on the my back and worked really hard for.So there's no more imposter syndrome.And if a job went away today, that's okay, we'll get another one tomorrow.And maybe not, maybe I could just become a full time author.That's my ultimate goal.

So there you go.

No, but I'm very grateful for the industry.I'm very grateful for what that has provided for my family.Absolutely.And there are certainly so many great people in my industry.I've always looked at my position as an executive in med devices which is a very cutthroat business.As if I can touch a physician or someone in healthcare that those with, with great, a great full bag of devices that are very beneficial to patient lives during surgery, then those, those physicians and, and healthcare providers can touch 100 plus patients and ultimately everybody events which.

Is a good thing.I mean it's a far reach.You know, I've been through, I, I, I have, I've been through eight operations after my injury and during those eight operations I have respect for.I had five doctors that told me I'd been a wheelchair for the rest of my life.And I have had three doctors who told me that at that and Right.If you don't need to listen to that, then this is what we're going to do for you.And you know that you don't have to do that and kind of.And I, I value those individuals that take a proactive approach especially when it comes to patient Health and you know, you, you bring something to the table that obviously helps people through surgeries and help people after surgeries and, and a need for something.So I, yeah, kudos, man.You still doing, you're still contributing in a positive way.

Yeah, I love what I do, but it doesn't define me, that's for sure.It's what I get up for.It's.The first thing is how is my family doing?How's my wife doing, how are my kids doing?How are my animals doing?

Can't forget the animals.That's why I keep looking down, because I have one down here going, I think it's time to eat.

Yeah.And, and then it's like, okay, I have, I've been blessed with this job.I'm going to give it a th percent because I'm being paid to perform and I'm going to continue to do that.But when it's time to punch the clock, no matter what state I'm working in, it's, it's off time.Now I begin my life again and it's no longer, you know, I, I live to work, it's just I work to live and, and that's where I'm at.

At what point in your life did you learn to trust people again?

I think it was the day that I fell on my knees, my rock bottom.And it comes on the heels and it's in the book, it's not a big secret.It comes on the heels of me wanted to take my life and through divine intervention, my youngest son inquisitively asking what was I doing trying to climb a ledge on a fish fifth floor balcony of a hotel while we're on vacation.That's just.I felt something leave me and I went back inside.Everyone started to awaken.My wife was very stoic.I'm going to forget that.I just fall to my knees, I need help.I started crying and I was like, I can't do this anymore.I can't get off this hamster wheel.Help me.And I was literally inches away, just moments away from, from ending it all.Because I thought selfishly that I don't deserve this family, nor do they deserve to continue to go through what they're going through because of me, that they'd be better off without me.But that's an alcoholic mind.That's an addictive mindset.And that was the day that I asked for help.Because up until that point, even the person who loved me most I could not trust.Because everyone.It was constant paranoia and anxiety.It was Everyone was out to hurt me no matter what.If you ask me a question, I'm like, well, why you're asking that question?Because I'm your wife.That's why I'm asking.I was just.It was almost like I want to hurt you before you hurt me.Because I didn't know how to deal with emotions I didn't know how to deal with.I didn't know how to communicate.That was something I had to learn.And I had, you know, all these things came late to me, unfortunately.But all I have now is the time to do it well.

And they.At least I came to you because there are many people that it doesn't.The wall still hits and they can't get over that or past it.So, yeah, let's talk about fatherhood.You know, we said earlier, fatherhood's best job in the world to me and so is being a husband to my wife.There's kudos for both of us that.

We have, you know, we share them in common.

We get cookies.

No one gives you a manual.You know, Exactly.You have these beautiful children.2.I have two boys and a girl.They're all young adults now and you know, two in the workforce.Middle child and the youngest child want to follow in dad's footsteps and med devices.My middle child just got her big job and my oldest is a school teacher.But, you know, early on no one gave me the manual.And then.Plus the only manual I had was this monster beating us.I never hit my kids or my wife or anything like that.

But you had the copy strained manual that you couldn't read because of everything that was stuck to it.Right, right, yeah, I understand that one.Sorry.

Well, I was going to say, you know, the communication was.Was weird for me.I think I was a good father in spite of all of the other things that I was doing, meaning the drinking and.But it's almost funny, right?Because.And it's not funny.They would behave at times when I was drinking a lot and come home and I. I'd like to talk a lot.And I was very gregarious and very over the top rank bunches and they would all scatter.And that started to me, I was like, I wonder who used to do that when someone came home.I.And meanwhile, there was no violence or anything.It was just dad was a pain in the ass.And you know, that deck stayed with me for a while.It doesn't matter whether or not you're hitting your child.It's the emotional baggage that they start to carry And I saw that the oldest started to become more responsible for the family when dad would check out, too, which I did.

Puts a toll on them.Yeah.

So I think.

Yeah, I think it hit you to change the way you thought about your own childhood and how it was reflecting back on your own kids.I think, if.Correct me, but I think that you.You kind of recognized something there before and stopped it before it kind of started going too far.

Yeah.I like the fact that we can now.First of all, I always.I was never told that I was loved or anything.

I.

That was something I always did.I love you.And, you know, I did things with them.I took them.They're all athletes.They all played, except for my oldest.The other two played college sports as well, which was fantastic.So I feel like I'd give them that gift.I give them the gift of competitiveness, high achievement.I love that about them.Today we have deeper conversations, and I love that they're frank with me today, that they can tell me something.Whether they want to hurt my feelings or not.They're going to say it and that's okay.

Which is good.

Which is good.But we also have very real conversations, Michael.We talk about, hey, guess what?You are so lucky that your dad gave you the gene.And I can't tell you to drink or not or whatever is you're doing.You're an adult.And my.My youngest is 20 now, and he's a.He's a sophomore.He plays soccer in college.And I was like, I'm not dumb.You know, I know you drink.I mean, and he knows and I know, and.And he's even had a drink in front of me, which.Okay, but I've always.Like I said, look what you do.Your choices are going to determine what that next step looks like.I can't.You're adults.I can't tell you what to do.But know this.You've seen your data worse.And play forward.Your choices will determine what.What your out.Your outcomes will be at the end of the day.And they get it.And we have those very real conversations.

Communication is the magic word in any kind of relationship.

Yes, sir.Yes, sir.

And, you know, I like the fact that you're open about your experiences, and with the alcoholism and the relapse and the recoveries and.And, you know, I think that that openness also gives and builds a certain trust within your kids so that they have a better understanding of you, where you came from and where you're at today.To see a transformation that had taken place and that you work hard at it.And, you know, we're only human beings.Sometimes we might take a couple of steps back, but reality is we're aware of it.And if we communicate that to those around us, then they're aware of it.So they continue to treat us with compassion and humanity and understanding instead of anger and resentment.So, you know, I think you're doing everything right.

Thank you, sir.Yeah.You know, I think what I'm most proud of is that, you know, I think that my wife and I especially probably the last five years, have never been closer.

They.

They've been able to see that mom and dad unit come as close, the closest that we've ever had.And I think that makes them happy, that we celebrate all love the way we do, and we do a lot of things together.Now, I think that's also important to think the family unit is intact and it's healthy.It's important.Now, will there be issues?Of course, there'll always be issues.I mean, we know it's perfect, but these are things we can communicate through today where in the past didn't know how to.And like I said, when you're doing 12 steps, it's a constant.You never.Whoever says you're done with the 12 steps, you're.You're not telling the truth.It's a work in progress for the rest of your life.

12 Steps, book one, 12 steps two, book three, on and on.No, I. I think you're doing thing.I think you're doing it right.I mean, you know, in this day and age, especially with being married as long as you have and gone through what you have, that in itself deserves an award because people get married and divorced quickly these days.They get married and they don't like somebody the way they look or what they dress or they're leaving clothes on the floor.So they married for a year and they're done and they do it again, and then they do it again.So, yeah, it's all good.

Thank you.

We could keep talking about you, but I think we're.Michael, we both had this gift of gab.

Yeah, no, I loved it.I love the time.I was looking so forward to this, you know, just because of the commonality of my closest friends, you know, were on a job for so long and did their time, who are now retired.And knowing that you were a police sergeant, that really resonated with me.Thank you for your service.Thank you for what you do for your communities.You guys are so.You know, you'll hear it often But I certainly appreciate you guys protecting and serving your communities.Absolutely.

Oh, I'm grateful for that.Thank you very.And coming from a guy named Richie, has to be true.

That's right.

I appreciate your willingness to talk about everything because I know some of it was difficult and it's public and you were comfortable with sharing it and helping us to understand your journey.Journey.And I appreciate that very much.Looking back, what do you understand about that period that you could.Couldn't see while you were living through it, that you kind of recognize now and maybe it could help somebody else recognize that.If I got that question right, and.

That's a great final question, you know, I. I would certainly go back, tell that child who's just so lost that what that person, that kid was going through, you need to forgive yourself.That wasn't your fault.And I think that there are many people that live with that child inside them that continue to say, oh, my God, what did I do?How did I poison the world?Why am I this.It wasn't your fault, but it's what you do today as an adult.To take responsibility and accountability for your adult actions is what's important.And that's where it begins.You know, your past doesn't define you.I'll say that a million times over.But what you do today can change the trajectory of your life.

Well, and I think you're putting it in writing that what an amazing opportunity for people to understand from the inside out what you went through.And they hopefully will can recognize something out of that and can walk away with something positive with it.What gave you the inspiration?I mean, we talked about it briefly, but if I can kind of touch back on it a minute before we kind of show everybody what the book and everything.What gave you the inspiration to finally say, yes, I want to publish this book.I want the world to kind of see it.

So private in his life.I never had social media until this year, and thank you for the support on social media, guys, but I was a very private man and I missed a lot.But anyways, I was going through the socials and during the COVID time and I had.The book was done.It wasn't meant to be a book, but I saw that a lot of people were going through so much pain and putting it out there in the ether, especially young adults who didn't know how to seek help, who are just lost hope.I was like, no, you know what?I need to put my shame aside and I need to put this book out there to help that teenager to help that young adult, maybe they could find their way a little bit earlier or maybe just provide the help they need at their lowest point.But that for me wasn't the end game because once that went off, I got together with some really great folks, policemen, firemen, physicians and, and psychiat psychologists, as well as my wife.And we created a foundation, the First Language foundation, which is dedicated to helping those very same people, right kids and young adults who have gone through the violence, the homelessness, the hunger, and certainly the addiction.How can we help them and raise monies?And 100% of that, those monies raised goes to this cause.None of us take a salary.We're all doing it because we care.So that was the end game.And then I wanted to put my money where my mouth is.Not only for this book, I have other projects behind this.There are four finished products of projects that are behind this project that for every book sold, a portion of the book will be donated to the First Language Foundation.So that, that is my duty, that is my calling, and that is my end game is to really support some great programs out there that are taking care of these very same kids where that, that did that are looking for a resource I didn't have that I didn't know how to seek that.And maybe that would have changed my life a lot earlier.So hopefully I can change someone else's life a lot earlier than mine.

And, and I think that's a profound way to help individuals, especially kids, that are going through the same things that we are.So.And we're going to touch again on that here in about two seconds.But we travel.We've kind of traveled your lifetime, didn't we?

Yeah, we did.

We did.We did.We did.From little boy who learned to remain silent to the adult who eventually found a way to tell his story.And along that journey, there must be moments when he thought things could have gone an entirely different direction.A decision, a person, an opportunity, maybe something that didn't happen.Which brings me to a question I ask my guest near the end of our conversations.It's called the almost question.So we're going to hit you with the almost question.The moment that almost didn't happen.So when you look back on everything, when you look back on your life, you look back on where you've come from.Is there a person in your life, a moment in your life, something that if you would have not made that decision, if you would not have grasped that opportunity, that your life could have changed in a completely different Way.

Yeah, I remember very vividly this.This young man.Middle school.You know, I wasn't an angel.Right.I was.I was obviously in survival mode all the time and always trying to prove myself outside of baseball and my.It wasn't framed, obviously.Friends don't do this to friends, but he was notorious for stealing cars and.Yeah.

So can I have a number?I don't.

God, I hope he's alive and I hope he's healthy and happy.I know that he's done a lot of time, but.Because that wouldn't be the last thing he does or did.But he had asked me to come along with him.He was going to break into a car and steal a car.And it was a Mustang.This is like 1983.I was 13 years old.He was already into his crime career.And I went to the shopping lot where this car was that he was going to lift.And the last moment, I decided that I could not do this, and I left.He got caught, arrested, and went back to juvie.

Now, see what we.If you'd have taken that opportunity, look what we would have missed.

Yeah.And unfortunately, he continued a life of crime, of drugs and everything else.

And that's not cool.

I. I never saw me.I mean, after high school, I never saw him again.I'm maybe in the system, who knows?But he was certainly tracking on a lifetime of crime.

Yeah.Yeah.See, we.We would have missed your brilliance that you put into a book.

I wasn't meant for the crime scene.I'm too chicken.

Tell everybody how to find you and your book and your foundation.

Yeah.So you can find.Silence was my first language anywhere books are sold.And audiobooks.If you buy the audiobook, they're going to get the New York accent.Sorry, but it's.It's told by me.And like I said, $1 from every book sold will go to the first language foundation.org and you can also buy the book@richdunningbooks.com and I'll make sure that.

That's in the link so that everybody in the show, notes everybody, can just click the link and go right to either you.Rich, this is one more thing before you go.So I have another question before we go.By all means, I'd like to ask after everything that you've experienced, everything that you've learned and all the people that you've encountered along the way, if you could leave our audience with one thought, one more thing, one piece of wisdom or something along that line.I call it words of wisdom, what would it be?

Fight for your life every day.This is a gift.There's no dress rehearsal as this cliche as I'd sound.There is none.This is it.The one take that you have.Make every moment count.You do that, boy, this world would be a different place.

Brilliant words of wisdom.Brilliant words, my friend.Brilliant words of wisdom.Thank you.Thank you so much for joining me today for our, our openings for you.

Honor to be here.

Trust.Honor is mutual.I appreciate you trusting your story with me and with.With my audience.It's been a pleasure having you here.And do you have aspirations to write another one?Yeah.

So like I said, I have four other projects behind this.My next one is actually a corporate thriller.It's like the Firm meets the cartel on steroids.It's a great story.Medical device story.So based on.Yeah, write what you know, right?What I know, right?Yeah.

And you know enough cops, you.Whoops.Yeah, you know enough cops that can get you.Get you all the technical stuff on that side.

Oh, yeah, no, they helped out a little bit.Actually.One character is named after my cop friend.Yeah, that's.That's probably my favorite book.But I felt that this book needed to be the coming out story to discover Rich Dunning, per se.And then I could put out all my other works behind it, you know, hopefully one every eight months or so, and create a platform which is the end goal.

Very cool.Okay, well, if I can help you along that journey, then I'm here for you, man.

Thank you, sir.I really do appreciate it.

Again, thank you very much for, for everything that you bring to the world.I appreciate our conversation and we will talk again.

Yes, sir, the pleasure is mine.Thank you.

Sometimes the most important part of someone's story is the part that they never felt safe enough to tell.And perhaps today's conversation reminds us that listening with curiosity can reveal more than we ever imagined.That's a wrap for today's episode.If you had enjoyed it.If you enjoyed this conversation, please follow one more thing before you go on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform.And don't be.Don't let me try that again.Don't Forget to visit YouTube.We have a YouTube channel as well.You can watch this video conversation and write us a review.It helps us to grow.So until next time, have a great day, have a great week and thank you for being part of our community.I am Michael Hurst and this is One more Thing before you go.

Thanks for listening to this episode of One more thing before you go.Check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com you can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.