The Survivor Who Walked 1,600 Miles Home | Martin Bodek

One more thing before we go. I have a couple of questions for you today. How do you honor a story that isn't yours but lives inside you?And how does one man's survival become another man's purpose?Today we're going to answer both of those questions and so much more, based on the true story of one family, one war, one grandson who decided to carry it all forward. I'm Michael Hurst. This is one more thing before you go.Stories shape us, especially the ones passed down through family culture and the people who came before us. We all have those kind of stories. Today's guest was lucky enough to have that take place in his own life.Martin Bodick is a technologist by day, a writer by night, and the author of 14 books, including the most important work, Zaidie's War, published by Amsterdam Publishers, Europe's largest publisher of the Holocaust literature.His grandfather's story spans four armies, three continents, the largest land invasion in human history, the final battle of World War II, a 1600 mile walk, immigration to Israel, surviving the six daily wars in Haya, and building a life in the United States, where he finished the entire Talmud for 14 times. And I'm happy to share that journey with us. Welcome to the table.

Hi, Michael. Thank you so much for having me this afternoon, this evening. I appreciate so much the questions you posed at the beginning.It really set up the talk we're about to have.The details that you mentioned there reminded me that when I was doing the research for this mind blowing story, which became a mind blowing book, my wife said to me in the middle of all this, you know, your grandfather sounds like the Forrest Gump of World War II. And I said, you know what? That is unbelievably apropos because that's exactly right.Anything that was happening anywhere, my grandfather was front and center. For some crazy reason. That's just where he was.And even in his regular civilian life, which blessedly he, he got to at the conclusion of the war, he continued to do amazing things and show up in interesting places. For example, just a tiny example.We don't even have to get into this, but there's a famous electronic store in New York City that was called 47th street photo that many, many, many people are familiar with. He was its first employee.And when I say that, yeah, the first employee, and it's a popular store, I think it's since defunct, but he was the first one.Just, just as a way of adding to his mystique of being everywhere at all times, at all junctures so thank you for having me, and thanks for already bringing out so much of the story. And I'm very eager to drill in on any of these points that you mentioned, because the story is just wild and incredible.

Well, we're going to have an amazing conversation.I think that your journey in all of this, between your family, your culture, your identity, your transformation, your grandfather's story, is going to be a wonderful opportunity for us to be inspired, motivated, and educated, I hope.But before we talk about your grandfather's story, I'd like to understand the person sitting across from me who is Martin, outside of being the man who carried this story forward.

Well, as you introduce me as a technologist by day and a writer by night, indeed, this is what I am. It's what I do. I am trying as best as I can to switch the two. I'd like to be a writer by day and a writer by night. But real life gets in the way.We're not there just yet, but we are embarking on this journey. And being on your podcast today is another stepping stone in that process. And I do hope to get there.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

We all have. You have to. We all have to take that first step. And once we take that first step, the journey begins.And sometimes it takes a little bit longer to get there, but we always get there if we continue walking forward.

Yeah, absolutely. Which is the message. We've already leap. Lept. Vaulted completely to the end of the story.My grandfather's message, if you want to just go fast forward right to the end, is get busy living or get busy dying. That was his motto.And I take that from the Shawshank Redemption, because I know that must sound familiar to you and your listeners ears, but really, that was. That was his creed, his credo, his. His motto. And I totally follow in his footsteps. It's always one step forward.So just so happens to be that this is my 70th program and my 34th PIL. I'm keeping track of these things. And we march forward and we carry on. I'm trying. Yeah, yeah. And I'm trying to become a writer.And the humanization of my grandfather is part of that process, the bringing out of his incredible story. It's very, very important. As you mentioned.

Yeah, oops, I'm sorry.

As you mentioned, I'm the author of 14 books, but I don't think I'll ever write anything more important. I write comedy mostly, and I'll write funny things. Many funny things. Great. But important. This might be it.And it's no great Demerit that the most important thing might be in my present and in my slight past. Maybe, perhaps I will develop something, a sequel, perhaps in the future. But this remains paramount to be told.And it's a responsibility I carry with intention and with intensity and with happiness, frankly.

Well, it's a profound journey. It's a profound journey, and you know it is.You get to translate history from the source and not just hearsay, not just reading it in a book or newspaper. You get to translate it that way. So let's begin with your grandfather, the man at the center of this extraordinary story.What did his stories reveal about you and your own identity, along with his broad big question.

The art and the necessity of survival is something I carry in my DNA. I learned so much from him about what it means to push forward. As Churchill said, the only way out of hell is through.And my grandfather was the embodiment of this. He pushed and he pushed every single day to survive. And I'm a runner. I'm a bit of a trivia question.I am the second youngest human ever to have completed 25 New York City marathons, which is a nice little feather in my. In my cap. Thank you.And there's something about putting myself through a trial willingly, voluntarily, which I feel lucky about, because I always want to see what I'm made of, right? Because I got the sense of what my grandfather was made of.And I want to see, you know, in a world where we're not subject to the kind of tortures and hells that he was, what I've got. What's my metal? What, what? M E T T L E, what, what's my stuff? Do I have any of this stuff? And I'm always wondering and I'm always testing.So I carry this. This urge to step forward constantly. And I really try to. To inculcate that into my children. This, the moving forward process of existence itself.I'm Jewish, so I like to impart guilt. That's. That's my stock in trade. And with my children, it's power through. You got a problem, you gotta face it, confront it.And because grandfather did so, and I learned from him, and you learned from me because you didn't have an opportunity to learn it from your grandfather directly. So I'm here. I'm the person in between.

You're it. You're the man. You did it. You're the man. When did you realize that you were the one meant to write Zadie's War? I mean, it's.I mean, we're Going to get a little more deeper into it. But what was that point in time?

So it was when I was very young, very young indeed, when I was a six or seven or eight year old child. My grandfather was very unnaturally and oddly open with his survival experience.And if my parents were aware, they may have objected, but, you know, I was raised on his knee. So he shared his life story with me.And I remember, you know, my dad's a psychotherapist and I remember even knowing back then this is triggering and could create trauma. But I'm very interested in this story, so please continue. Right. It was dangerous. It could have been. It was. It's some serious stuff. I'm a 3G, right.Third generation survivor. When Holocaust survivors shared too much with their children, their two GS, it didn't always translate well.There's a second generation PTSD for sure. Well documented. And that's why two G memoirs are not that common, because they, the children of survivors, found it difficult to express this.This is why most Holocaust memoirs are written by the survivors themselves or their grandchildren, because the grandchildren are slightly removed from the trauma, bit of the, of the relationship. So I listened to these stories and I remember internalizing, you know, I'm gonna have to tell this story one day. It's incredible.And he is the spark that was lit. You know, I was a bale of straw and he was the flint and it got lit up.It took a while, right, for the conflagration to take off and for the whole barn to go up. But you know what? There was enough patience and it took me a while to get there.We interviewed my grandfather, my mother and I, his daughter, seven years before I published my first book, because I already knew this story has to be told. I have to collect it and then we'll take it from there.

If I can interrupt just for a second.

Sure.

I have to say, first and foremost, I appreciate that you took the opportunity to do that because I, you know, I understand my father was a journalist, number one, before he passed away.But from the that generation, they're disappearing so much and that, that history is usually told through a school book or a textbook and not verbally like that. So taking that opportunity to understand that you needed those stories and to document those stories. Kudos, man. And that.

Thank you. Profound last number that we know of is 195,000 survivors left and dwindling very quickly.Everyone clearly understands in that number that perhaps even half are not of sound constitution to even share if they could. So the number who can tell stories. You can just chop that in half, like right away, right? So it's a very quickly dwindling number.Just like World War II soldiers. They were older when they experienced war and their numbers are very little. Five years ago, the last veteran of World War I passed away.So these people pass.But I always say, to echo what you're saying, that in order to get a story like this, you need two parts, you need two pieces, you need a person willing to talk. That already is rare. And you need a person willing to listen. And if you're missing one of these two, you don't get anything. So I was lucky.I had a person willing to talk and I was the available listener and we got the story written. And as I mentioned, I wasn't a writer yet. I was still technologists working in New York City. But it was there, it was waiting.You know, we recorded the conversation on vhs. You know what VHS are many.

There may be people that are listening that don't.

Yeah, they don't. Which is just a funny thing. And I, you know, it sat there and waited and it was, it was inevitable it was going to get off that shelf.And so that's what happened. I put up my first book, self published, silly book. I called it Bush 2, Book 1. It was the King James version of the Bush presidency.Because he was a kind of religious figure. I don't know if he was intensely religious, but he spoke in a religious sense. So I said, let me toy with this silly idea.I tried and I tried something else and another toy. And then I got my first contract and then my second, and then my third.And once I started having success, I looked at the shelf and I looked at the notebooks that I had in my drawer and I said to myself, it's time. It's time I know enough to approach the industry. So, as you mentioned, and thank you, Amsterdam publishers took me up.They are indeed, as you mentioned, the largest publisher of Holocaust literature in Europe. They are a supremely important institution. The editor in chief's name is Lisbeth Hank, and she says that she wants to tell all 6 million stories.It's a. It's a profound ambition. And this, and this is one of the stories.And if you want to include the other people that I chronicle in the appendix, such as my grandmother and my grandfather's cousins and other survivors.So a few more of those 6 million stories are told, and I'm very proud to, to have it told and to be the person who brought this and forged it into the universe. So an answer to your question to come all the way back.It was when I was a child that my grandfather spoke me, spoke to me of things that were horrific and strange and fascinating and adventurous. Frankly, when I speak to children in school, I highlight and I bring out the adventure part of it, because that's a whole story in and of itself.Even avoiding all the horrors and terrors that I could share with a different kind of crowd, there's certain things I will not put on the table. There's a dabbling with cannibalism that's baked into the story that I'm very careful with.Even when I get permission to speak of it to crowds, I'm very careful with the words I use. I shouldn't trigger or cause any pain to anyone. And I always pre apologize when I do so. So that's how the story was told.And my grandfather is the reason I'm a writer to begin with and what I've been working towards my whole life. And hopefully one day I will retire from corporate America before corporate America retires me. That is the goal. And we'll get there. We'll get there.It might take time, but we're slowly getting there.

It's a good goal. That's a good goal. And honestly, I had the privilege, and I say privilege because not everybody has that opportunity.A number of years ago, my wife and I were doing a film festival. And the film festival we had an individual that did a documentary on the Holocaust.And he had interviewed a number of individuals for the film festival for another event. They actually brought two survivors in and they were part of.They were twins, part of the twin experience that unfortunately was taking place during that regime in that time period. And it was eye opening, it was heartbreaking. And it was soul. I mean, it touched you by touching your soul.You know, you, I think, had this, you had this unique opportunity growing up as a child to grasp a hold of the importance of those stories. You know, we as a human, he was humans. We live by storytelling.We've grown up with storytelling way back radio, what everybody gather on radio for storytelling with TV storytelling. But you get the verbal aspect of it firsthand, which I think is an amazing opportunity.Hearing those, I mean, I hear somehow how it made you who you are today.But hearing those details as a child, did that shape you in any way as you grew up into an adult with understanding how your family took part in this or how they were a piece of history from that perspective?

Well, I think I internalized it differently.You know, how they say that when you give very, very, very young children allergens, such as peanuts, that they're more equipped than their peers who don't get it, and then become dangerously allergic to this kind of stuff later.So I think somehow, in the same sense, my grandfather sharing with me, guarded me or immunized me against feeling too much trauma from stories like this. And I think part of it was that as a young man in a Jewish school environment, obviously I'm going to read or hear a lot of these things, right?I also listened to survivors speak, and I read all the important and noted literature. The most important and most well known is Elie Wiesel's Night.But so much of these stories are victim stories, and my grandfather's story is not a victim story.It's something prouder and stronger because his experience, as you mentioned, and as you can see here in the title, of my book, the subtitle, the key word there is four armies. So he was a slave in a few of these engagements. But at the end, and we can unpack this, he gets drafted into the Russian army.Excuse me, the Soviet Army. I should not make that mistake. The Soviet army. The Red army, towards the end of the war, and he gets elevated from slave to soldier.And there's something about that journey that is empowering and is filled with strength and hope. And whereas my peers, my colleagues, my young classmates were all, oh, no, another Holocaust day. We have to listen. More trauma. Oh, my gosh.My grandfather still screams in the middle of the night. You know, terrible, terrible stories like that. My grandfather was completely different because he took charge of his own survival.He grew up, he raised himself and his family in a happy environment. He was a merry man. He was a softy. He was. He was carefree. He was serious about.About certain things, about human responsibility and taking care of your family. But these are things that anyone should be. Should be vigilant about and be sure to take care of.But I think I was fashioned differently as a result, because of his upbeat, positive attitude and because of his complete lack of victim narrative. I grew up strong, looking up to him as the totem of strength. And I think that resonates through the whole family as well.We're not a bunch of mopey, sad people. There's an energy and a positive vibe that flows through all of us. There's none of us that are not successful.We're all driven to power through and take care of business on a daily basis. And I think that comes directly from our patriarch, whose story I've brought to the world.

Well, it's interesting that you took the responsibility for carrying his story forward, because I think it's not just his story there, you know, it would be relatable to the countless others that did survive and did push forward and didn't give up. And I think that is an important. I mean, that's an important weight on your shoulders.It's not just a weight on your shoulder, but it's an important task for you to be able to carry it forward and do it in such a way that you give a better understanding of journey, of that journey and how, how it transformed families and how it brought families together and so forth. Let's talk about the writing itself turning or I said earlier, my father was a journalist, so I understand. I grew up in a newsroom.So back when they had typewriters, which for anybody listening, that's really young. You'll have to look that up, I guess. But, you know, I grew up listening to 30 typers. Clickety clacking, clickety clack, yeah.Inside the newsroom and watching that transpire, watched my father do it. And you know, sitting at home at the same time when he had to come up with a story. That's different than turning an oral history into a narrative.You videotaped it, you listened, you interviewed them, you took it from that perspective. How did that transform from that into the written work?

So we recorded several.I remember I was newly married and my grandfather had said that he would be available to listen to the questions that we have for him about the story of his life and recorded everything as we mentioned on vhs. And it sat. The time that it sat. We recorded him in 2003. He passed away in 2014. And I had achieved stepping stone success until we got to about 2019.And that was when we took everything off the shelf. Now, the conversation took place in Yiddish. I speak Yiddish fluently and my grandfather did not speak English well.He spoke six other languages, but not English perfectly. And it took me two years to translate that conversation into English.And what I did with the book, so that you readers know if, if they're interested in picking it up, and I hope that they are, is I did not do a back and forth storytelling. I didn't do that. I didn't do the kind of. I call it your choose your own adventure story. I find that confusing. It's a nice gimmick. It's okay.What I wanted to do, because it was a struggle enough to do the translation and because he spoke out of Order. He kept throwing in pieces of one narrative into the story of another. And I did a lot of unraveling. I didn't want to do the back and forth.So I worked after the translation to set everything up on a straight line to tell the story in a linear fashion in, you know, in the beat of time itself. And once I had it laid out perfectly, I began to put together the story as best as I could.What I did, what people have found interesting, is that I included the transcripts of the conversations as an appendix in the end of the book so that you could, as the reader, see what the writer struggled with in taking all these interesting components and laying them down in a straight line. So I enjoyed the process, obviously, because I'm a writer. And that was just.It was wonderful because once I had it all in a straight line, it was like magic, you know. Oh, I got the story. There it is. It's all lined up. Now I just have to. Have to. Have to speak. Well, I'm a big fan of classic literature.Dickens is my favorite old school writer. Mark Twain and all the classics. I'm busy reading. If you've ever heard, read the book. 1001 Books to read before you die.

I have not, actually.

Okay, so I'm on to book 124. I'm reading Les Miserables at the moment, and I'm working my way through the whole. All of it. So I'm doing my best.

You're in phase one.

Yeah, phase one. So there are passages that I pulled out my best Victory, you go and. Or my. My best Rabelais or my best of any of. Who wrote. I'm sorry, John Mack.I can't remember. Anyway, you're great. You're great writers of. Of the previous age. And there are passages where. Where I just. I. I needed to mirror the giants.There are. There are moments of such peril and such human intensity that I couldn't just write it out of whatever I fashioned. I'm not great enough.I had to lean on the giants. There's. There's a moment at the end where my grandfather meets his brother after not seeing him for five years. And that's just. How do I write this?How do I write this? I have to turn to the masters, and I think I've succeeded.One of the things I'm very proud of is I did a lot of war research because most schools who teach you the Holocaust will teach you with an agenda. They want to give you a certain aspect of the war. Right. If you're Jewish. They teach you what happened in the concentration camps.If you're American, they teach you the story of the gi, but you cannot possibly learn everything. Only the true experts can possibly even hold the entire story in their heads.But I thought it was very important to include war details, because there are so many dramas that are told that. That. That survivors recorded that you cannot imagine, why is he in this certain place? How did he get there? And the survivors usually don't even know.They're just swept along as far as Gump said, floating along on the breeze, all easy, like that's just where they were.So where my grandfather found himself, I wanted to know, know what happened to put him there, what political maneuvering, what cataclysm placed him in this spot. And so I did the research on every one of his movements, and so far, it's held up. I spoke to veterans earlier this year, and my research held up.I was very proud. You know, I boldly asked the crowd to challenge me if you think I may have gotten anything wrong.And it seems I did once I made the mistake, and I think I hinted it to before. I referred to the Soviet Union as Russia, and there was a Russian in the crowd of one of my talks who got really mad at me, like.Like Putin mad, like, oh, my God, I really screwed the pooch here, to borrow a phrase. So I won't be making that mistake again.It was the Soviet Union that was involved in World War II, so everything holds up, and that was part of what I wanted to get right.

Do you think that was the hardest part of documenting your grandfather's journey?

Yes, because I felt the. I felt the pressure of. Of getting the history correct. One of the features, Yes.

I think that's important, too, because a lot of individuals don't do that. They fill in what they think might be or might fit. And you took the opportunity to fill in what did fit because it was right.

Correct? Correct. Thank you for saying that. Because one of the features of this book, and I hold that it's unique in many ways, is that I invented nothing.Nothing. It's not historical fiction at all. I did not imagine or make up any dialogue. If my grandfather said.He had a conversation and he said certain words, those are the words that I put into the book, nothing else. I always. When I look at my movies based on books.

Right.

You know, and you're like, oh, no. What did they have to go and stick in the love interest? That's not part of the story. The story itself is amazing.So, you know, I don't know if I'll be blessed to have this turn into a movie, although it's absolutely deserving. But I would think I would not want to sell out. I wouldn't want anything made up because I didn't make up anything. So the book is not.There's sparse dialogue as a result. It's more what is going on. It's less internal decision making and inner thoughts than the details of the situation that he's in.And where sometimes you might want to get an inner sense of what's going on inside of a person's brain. Okay. You can't always have that. So that's not readily available.This book is purely a work of nonfiction, and it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

So you remember that I used to be a cop?

Yes. That resonates. Yep.

Your grandfather avoided. You mentioned it earlier, and I thought we'd touch on it just a little bit.Your grandfather avoided cannibalism under pain of death, eluded poisoning, and walked 1600 miles. What surprised you most during your research in understanding all aspects of that? Because that story is all of that.I mean, when you think of one individual, and I know that there were others that may have followed that same pathway or that same journey to their freedom, their escape, their surviving.But as you grew up listening to this, especially from a child's perspective, growing up with it and the older you got understanding it more, what I mean, wow. You know, how did, how did all that, how did you encompass all that? How did you really embrace all of that? Because that, that's.That's a hell of a story.

It is. My grandfather had principles, right? And he drew a line in certain places. I always say that the triumvirate of survival is food, luck and decisions.FLD or fdl, whatever, whatever acronym you want to come up with. My grandfather was a master forager, so he took care of all the food.He was always the strongest of the people around him, and this aided his survival in profound ways. Luck. Some people refer to God or the gods or the spirits or the Holy Ghost or whatever you want as. As the stuff of luck. But luck favors the.The prepared mind. I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said that, or Newton or somebody smart. And decisions, decisions.One of the amazing lessons about decisions that I learned from my grandfather is that sometimes you don't even know what the result of your decision is going to be. But you have to decide something or else all is lost. And they talk about decisions in leadership conferences all over the world.And I buy into the system where sometimes even a bad decision is necessary, because no decision is even worse than a bad decision, because a bad decision you can back out of. But no decision is very often fatal, Right? You got to do something.And very frequently, you know, my grandfather and many survivors were faced with the kind of choices are, you know, do I eat this or do I eat that? Do I volunteer for this work or do I not? Do I follow this line because they seem to be going somewhere, or do I follow this one?Do I stand up or sit down? Do I respect this guy or do I show him some lip?My grandfather had to decide throughout the entire book how I feature day after day after day to do this or to do that. And he got lucky. But the luck was because he made decisions. And there's one amazing principle that he. That he stood behind.He was flexible in everything. You know, you look at me and you see a religious person, right? You people can make presumptions about me.And if you look at my grandfather and this is. This is his picture, by the way, and you look at him and you go. You go, oh, yeah, that looks like a religious guy. Well, yeah.And I also, when I go to schools or sensitive religious areas, I try to prepare for this question because people say, did your grandfather's faith get him through the war? No, it did not. Which is a very, very, very, very extremely surprising thing to hear, because my grandfather was on a break.That was one of the decisions that he made. He was a very religious Jewish person. But as soon as the war hit, that was. He hit the pause button. He survived. I remember asking him, did you.Did you.You know, there are many amazing stories of Jewish people, you know, getting a menorah for Hanukkah or managing to create unleavened bread for Passover, that I asked him, did you do any of this stuff? And my grandfather, I remember he was stern with me, and as I mentioned, he was a cheerful person. But he said. He said, what are you talking about?I was trying to survive. What do you mean? What do you mean? There's no time for. I didn't have time to ask God for anything. What are you talking. I'm trying.When I was done, then we went back to what, you know, regularly scheduled program. But while I was trying to survive, there was only survival. And this is very surprising for people to hear. Very surprising and also shocking.

And it shouldn't be, actually, because, you know, obviously, uncertainty, you know, it's cliche, but walk a mile in my shoes, you Know, you can't judge somebody based upon what they did and the decisions they made unless you fully understand from a perspective of in that position yourself whether that decision was right or wrong or whether or not you feel it was right or wrong if the decision made for that individual at that time to survive.

Right.And that may have been the most eye opening revelation about, about his, his inner mind of the entire storytelling that he absolutely put himself on pause as far as religious life went. And I remember acclimating myself very quickly to what he told me.

Right.

You know, I, like you said, I put myself in his shoes very quickly. Internalized, okay. Processed and moved on to the next set of questions that I had for him.But I spent a lot of time thinking about it and I was impressed. So that was signal, that was, you know, a moment writ large.The other principle that he stood behind was so he had survived and gotten to the point where he did, because he was always rummaging and foraging for food. Always.He, whenever he was given a certain amount of calories because of work that he completed for the Russian army, for example, he went and found more. He just went and found more. And he was always the strongest of the group as a result.But there was a moment where the supply lines were cut off to a Russian camp where he was caught in.And suddenly this, this idea of securing more calories was something he set aside completely because he would not partake of the only food available while the supply lines were cut off. So one of the amazing features is.So we fast forwarded a little bit in the story, but my grandfather finds himself in the service of the Soviet army in one of their military installations. And he saws wood for them every day, and he brings water to the troops every day and so forth and so on and lots and lots and lots of menial labor.And this is approaching the Arctic circle, so there's 21 hours of night and 21 hours of day, depending on which time of the year. And bodies, as you can expect in this harsh environment. My grandfather said it snowed there 370 days a year.He said bodies could not be buried because of permafrost. So they were stacked like cordwood at the margins of this encampment.So when the supply lines were cut, that was readily available for the chefs in the kitchen to convert as necessary for survival. And my grandfather would not partake in that under, under threat of his own existence. He simply wouldn't.

But, yep, as a principle that obviously he stuck by those principles, and I agree with him. I would have done the same thing. It's one of those survival aspects. Yes, but I'll find another way.

Perhaps.But one thing you'll learn very quickly, if you've ever read a Holocaust memoir, and I'm sure you have, almost every single one of them will feature some sort of an explanation of what hunger is like. It is all consuming when the desire for everything else has been laid to bed. Right.The desire for anything else that exists in the world, for respect, for physical love, for power, when all that is just flung out the window. Hunger never escapes you.

Yep, I understand. Yep. I definitely understand that. I've seen it as a cop in my career. I've seen people at their worst. I've seen good, the best people at their worst.You know, in every situation in regard to that, I saw a lot of poverty. I saw a lot of people who were living down by the creek in a tent, in a car, you know, homeless, just trying to survive.And, you know, understanding that you're obviously, the Holocaust is a very large hunger in anybody. I need to be careful. I'm saying this. Anybody with that kind of a hunger, you have to understand that it innately sticks with you.It can happen at any level, any age, anytime. And I'm sure your grandfather and all millions of others that were there, you know, you have to make a choice sometimes.And understandably, you have to make a choice because it does stick with you.

So it's that consuming. And somehow, despite the fact that hunger completely overtook him, he went on a hunger strike because he didn't.He could not on principle partake of this. And he starved himself for two days. But the supply lines were finally recast. And I think my grandfather would.Would have surrendered his life if the regular food would not have come back in. But he was willing to stand by this. And then once the supply lines were recast, he nursed himself back to health.So what's interesting about hunger is that you can very quickly get back to proper functioning very soon. One of the pieces of research that I found out was, for example, Buchenwald had 21,000 surviving prisoners.And they were all starved out and emaciated and skeletal, but they were all ready to move after three days of getting some good MREs from the American soldiers. And I remember the stat was 16,000 were on the go. 5,000 Remained for another week.You just needed something, a little bit of something, and just to just light that human spark back up, you just don't need that much.So my grandfather subsisted and nursed Himself back to health and survived somehow with this principle intact, which is an extraordinary thing that he experienced. Yeah.

I read that he later immigrated to Israel, lived through six days, the Six Day War in. Is it Haifa?

Well, Haifa, that's where he was living at the time. Haifa was the most bombed city in Israel during the Six Day War in 1967. Yeah.

Well, he eventually settled in the US obviously. That's why we're talking where he worked as a chef for 40 years. I find that really kind of. I find that really interesting, actually.While finishing the Talmud 14 times.

Yes.

Had these chapters deepen your understanding of who he was?

Well, it just. Just increased my admiration for him.So first of all, he left Israel in 1967, or began to leave in 1967, because the war absolutely frightened the living daylights out of him.

Yeah.

So what he did was, is every time the boys. He had three children, my two uncles and my mom, every time they became of draft age, he sent them off to the United States.And I remember there were many junctures during the story where he would either pause and say something to the effect of, you know, when you tell this story, one day, I want you to add this thought or that thought.So when he told me this, I paused him to ask him what I should say to any crowd I'm speaking with who will accuse you, Zaidi, my grandfather, of draft dodging. So you said, interesting. Interesting question. You can tell whoever asks why I sent the boys away to America.I was done having sacrifices in my own family. Okay. So, you know, sometimes you can't answer for somebody if he's not there.So that is a baked in answer that I do have that very often comes up in Q&As. And that's just his answer. And, you know, I can't take another response because I don't have it. But that was his response.So he sent my oldest uncle to the United States school. Then the next uncle became of age and then left with my mom in 1971.Now, the COVID story for why they left for the States until I did the research for the book, was that my mother came to the United States to attend an Elvis concert and she refused to go back home because one of the facts of history, and perhaps you're familiar with this, is that Elvis performed only in the United States. Colonel Tom Parker thought it was only worth his time to entertain in the United States.And so my mother took advantage of that little fact and said he didn't perform anywhere. He wasn't going to Israel. I couldn't find him there.I had to stay in the US So I had to confront her with the new reality, which was all the facts of the story that I now knew because I did all this research. And the truth had to come out. So the truth was that they moved to the United States and 1971. And as mentioned, he became. He came looking for work.And so he became the first employee of 47th Street. Photo, which I mentioned before when it came time to make a living.So let's wind it all the way back, because when I introduce my grandfather at book talks, I say he loved doing three things. Three things is what he did. So first, he was an expert forest forager.He loved to learn with his father in his study, and he loved to cook in the kitchen with his mom. And these three things will either, as we unpack the story, save his life at some point or enrich his life at some point.So the foraging kept him alive through World War II, and the other two features we just mentioned enriched his life. So he found a job as a chef because he loved, loved his mother who he cooked with in the kitchen.And he always had a fondness for it and always looking for food and being around food, food, food, food, food, food. And so that's what he did for all of his life, for 40 years in various institutions all around Brooklyn and in Catskill camps.He had forearms as big as my head all the way through his old age. And he lost his job at the end of his life due to ageism. And he was furious. He was so upset.He wanted to put out want ads and classifieds looking for a chef at this school, that school, until his children sat down with him and said, you know what? You've been doing this for 40 years. It's time to hang it up. It's okay.And I remember my grandfather said, in Yiddish, I'll translate in Yiddish, he said, which means if you don't work, you die. And he's right. He's right. You need. You need an animus every single day. You need emotion. You need to.The Yiddish word is to persist in your own existence, to work. Right? And he really believed in that. And I remember how upset he was that he could no longer work.But while he was doing all this, he honored his father by learning the Talmud. The Talmud is a 2711 page corpus of Jewish debates written in the third century, I believe. I think that's how old it is.And he's been through it 14 times. People study this one page a day. I do the same as well. And it takes seven and a half years to get through.But he was at his own pace and finished it 14 times.The program began for those who are curious in 1923, and next year they will finally finish their 14th cycle, which means my grandfather finished it more times than the actual cycle in history, which is an unbelievable accomplishment, a mind blowing accomplishment.

On top of his other accomplishments.

On top of his other accomplishments, exactly. Yeah. And my mother.So I did the best, you know, classic literature I could, but my mother's thoughts about seeing my grandfather celebrate his first completion of the Talmud. When they lived in Haifa, I maintained in their pure form. She sent me an email containing her emotions and how she felt.She remembered that people walking in the, in the streets of Haifa with their torches and singing, and I captured the raw emotion. It was very wonderful thing to capture in the raw and leave it just as it is in its authentic, original form. So that's what he did.He lived a good life. And he had three children, 19 grandchildren. I'm one of them.And at this point, 101 great grandchildren and the great greats, I cannot even begin to count.

Holy smokes.

Yeah.

I think that he needs to come back and talk to my daughters.

Okay.

Because I need some grandkids.

Okay. Well, God commanded be fruitful and multiply and fill the world. And he certainly did.

So, yeah, definitely fulfilled that. And look, I, I would, I don't blame mother coming on her for Elvis. I, I, I appreciate that. I, I would, I would move for Elvis.He was an integral part of my teenagers. Not, not. I loved Elvis. We still love Elvis. My kids grew up with Elvis. So it's okay if she come over here for Elvis? It's all good.

She would have had to go back home, but it was a good cover story. It really was. Like I couldn't go back home. I wanted to see him again. Okay, I totally get it.

Exactly. Exactly. He did more than one performance, so I had to keep seeing if it changed.

Correct.

Exactly. You've spoken about this all over the world and obviously you've written about it, you've spoken about it.Why is the phrase never again more than a slogan for you?

Because we are, as we speak, making the mistake of having never again not means something. Never again is supposed to mean that nothing of this magnitude can ever happen again.And very often, usually it's the closing question in a, in a well, moderated forum. Do you think, Mr. Bodeck, that never again means something? Do you think it could happen again? The answer is that. It's a very easy question to answer.It. You know, it's complicated, but the answer is easy. The answer is, of course, yes. Yes, it could happen very easily.Just a few operands change here and a few operands change there, and certain people get elected and get swept into office in one place and certain in another, and all of a sudden the whole thing changes. And yes, it could happen again. And not only can it happen again, it is happening again as we speak. As we speak.They're slaughtering women in Afghanistan. The Chinese are slaughtering the Uyghurs out of existence. They're extincting the Weaver, the. The Uyghurs out of existence.The Christians are dying all over Africa. And the Church says nothing. So never again is not something we've actually meant. And we better, because it's happening right now.So don't ask me if it could happen again, because it is. I'm here to warn you, to warn all of you. It's happening as we speak because we're not doing anything. And I have to. I have to. I must.Me, along with my colleagues who under the Amsterdam Publishers imprint, also recorded stories like this. So they can. So they can speak to this point. Exactly. This is, as I mentioned, the concluding thought very, very frequently.I just came back from Chicago. I served on discussion panels at the American Library association. And this was the question that came up at the end. This. This was it.And yeah, it's happening now because. Because it is just a slogan, unfortunately. We must stop it. And the.The Uyghurs of China are going to be a black stain on humanity because if they actually do extinct an entire race, boy, we will never be able to forgive ourselves as human species. And we better care.

We all over the world, including, of course, where we are right now.

Absolutely, absolutely. There's. There's slaughter that happens. The fact that the Church says nothing about. About what was 19,000 churches have been.Have been burned to the ground all over Africa. You got anything to say, Pope Leo? No. Okay. What about your predecessor? Did he say anything? Not really. Speak up. Speak up because.Because if you leave these things unchecked, it engulfs the world.

Keep going. Yeah, I agree. Yep. It's like an infestation. A cancer.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're also known for your. Make sure I say this correctly. Haggadah. Yes, Haggadah. Parodies, Emoji, festivus, coronavirus. Shakespeare, Star wars, dad jokes, Weird Al.How has your humor shaped your writing and your identity? Because, you know, I've just started Delving into your stuff and. Yeah, well done. Crazy cool.

Thank you. Thank you.So, yeah, so this, as we mentioned all the way at the beginning, which just feel like, wow, we've been talking here for a quarter of a day at least, is the most important aspect of myself. But there's time for levity in this world because you can't take yourself too seriously all the time.So what I do primarily is I put out Haggadah parodies. The Haggadah is the text, the pamphlet that adjoins the Passover Seder, the meal that Jewish folks have.Actually, some Christian folks also have a version of it for their Seder. So the first book I ever wrote was the Emoji Haggadah, the first parody. And that was the first contract I ever signed.It's the entire Haggadah converted into emoji. I'm very proud of it. But I know that you are a Shakespeare fan.And so I converted the entire, all 37 of Shakespeare's plays into and wove them as best. As best I could into the narrative. And I think I did pretty well with that. That shows up in many places around the world. I'm very proud of it.It shows up in the biggest bookstore on the planet, the smallest bookstore on the planet, the oldest bookstore on the planet. This one makes its way over there. And I wrote Haggadah Palooza, which was the Weird Al Haggadah.I could not call it the Weird Al Haggadah because that phrase is copy is trademarked.The reason it's trademarked, and perhaps you don't know this, and I'll be happy to enlighten you, is because once upon a time, a certain person named Al Franken was a very naughty boy, you might recall. And the headlines were Weird Al did this and Weird Al did that. And the real Weird Al really did not like that.So he trademarked his name and got all the media to buy back off these kinds of headlines. And his entire lawyer, you know, attorney shop, said, you can't use that. It's trademarked. So they did. So scrub scrubbed his name clean.And for that reason, I couldn't call it the Weird Alagara because Al Franklin was a very bad boy. So it's called a Gutta Palooza. I got it right here, actually. Hope it's within reach. Yeah, this is it. Cover artist did a great job.Name is Sari Capitnikov. It's very cool and thank you for mentioning it. So that's what I do most of the time. I'm working on another.Another Haggadah I have a friendly competition. I'm here on the east coast and on the west coast as a gentleman named Dave Cowan. And he puts out parody Haggadahs as well.He deals with a lot of politics and Seinfeld parodies. I've written Festivus Haggadah. He wrote the Yada Yada Haggada. We're having a good time and. And I'm working on the next one as well.But I'm trying not to be a one trick comedy pony. The other book that I'm working on, and I'm working on several at the same time, I'm doing a spin off of Zadie's War.There's a book that I'm writing tentatively called if these Objects Could Talk. Tales of cherished World War II objects that survived the war to be used in the present day. Day. Thank you.I Hope for a 30 chapter book with 30 different kinds of objects.I've already got amazing stories of all different sorts of things that, you know, escape the evacuation of Dunkirk and were buried underground for half a decade to make their way to the current age and all different sorts of things with amazing survival stories. And the reason I'm doing it is because once we lose the Last Survivor, we've got nothing else to tell the stories except what they've left behind.So I'm trying to tell the stories of those left behind. So if you have any such object, you give me a call.

Yeah, that's brilliant.

Yeah, yeah. You go to the. It's been crawling underneath us. Martinbodickbooks.com the whole time. That is where to find me and to give me one of your stories.I'll happily, happily make a chapter out of it. So that's the stuff I'm working on for the future as I try to become a writer by day and a writer by night.

That's an incredible journey to continue with. What do you hope readers carry forward from zdr?

That you need to charge ahead with your life. Confront every single one of your fears. Never run away from issues that are chasing you directly. If someone's got a beef with you, confront them.If you have a problem with the child, confront them. If you have a problem with yourself, look in the mirror and confront yourself. Never run away from issues. Face them squarely and head on.That's the only way to navigate this life. Never run away from your issues. Face them.

That's great. That's an amazing opportunity for us to kind of have a reflection at this point in the conversation. I always have what I call the almost question.If your grandfather could read the book you wrote about him, what do you think he'd say to you?

Oh, interesting. So one of the charms of my grandfather is that he never complimented you to your face. It wasn't his style.He would compliment you to another family member who he would trust would transfer the compliment to you. So I have no question. So for example, I mentioned before that I'm a marathon runner. He never said to me how proud he is of me.He mentioned to my mother and to all my cousins and they in turn said, did you hear what Zaydi said? Zaidi said, you're very impressive.So he would tell my mother, if he was around, he'd tell my mother, tell Matka, that's my Hebrew name, tell, tell, tell Matkah, very good job, I'm very proud of him. And then my mother would relay it to me and that would be good enough because that was the way he did things.

That works, that works, that works, that works. Before we get to our final question, I want to make sure everybody listening and watching can find you and how to find your stories in your books.And see, there's the Shakespeare one that I'm going to delve into shortly and the other two books, you've got more than this, but this is what I could fit on the screen.

I appreciate it very much. Yep, book 15 and 16 should be out next year. I'm working on children's books.We're trying to do this and my grandfather is the prime mover of this lifestyle I've chosen.

And how do we get a hold of you? Where do we find you?

Martinbodickbooks.com right there at the bottom of your screen. That is where you find me.That is where you email me or get in touch with me, invite me to a book talk, browse around, have a good time and enjoy the content. So martinbodickbooks.com is your one stop shop to find me, get in touch with me and enjoy me if that is your desire.

Well, and I'll make sure that there's links in the show notes for that and that everybody can just follow that link and get right to you. So it'll make it easy for them. And for those of you watching, you can always take a screenshot of what you we just saw.So words of wisdom, this is one more thing before you go. So I have to ask, words of wisdom before we go. What's the truth? Your grandfather's story helps you finally see.And what do you want others carrying generational memory to hold onto as they move through this world.

As we've talked about the entire time, the only way out of hell is through. And that translates to almost anything that sounds like it's advice or ecclesiastical. It's. It. It's. The only way to take charge of your life is.Is to take command of the reins and be a man. Because that's what it means to be a man. Masculinity is not toxic. Masculinity is taking care of business, taking charge.And one feature of masculinity is to field problems and take care of problems and make the proper decisions. And sometimes making a decision is decision enough because you could pick up the pieces if you fail.And as I said, if you make no decisions, you've lost, You've just. You've panicked. That's what that would you. That's what you've done.Pick up the problems that are facing yourself, your family, your loved ones, your community, your school, whatever it is, your job, your boss. Always, always be direct with yourself and with everything else in your life. And always speak the truth.The truth will always get you the best possible outcome out of all scenarios. That is something I learned from Dr. Jordan Peterson, and he's absolutely right. Truth, truth, truth. Always.And these are all things I've borrowed from my grandfather. These are things he taught me. And I'm proud, proud to carry his legacy with me.And people ask, do you find it burdensome to be running around all the time and telling the story? And the answer is, absolutely not. I will put up with anything with train travel and car travel and all different sorts of headaches.And I joke the only thing that makes me nuts is sitting twice at the same red light. And that gets my whole Larry David consciousness in a tizzy.But as long as that's not in play, I can happily tolerate almost anything else in service of the story that I thank you for helping me continue to push forth into the world.

Absolutely. And brilliant words of wisdom. Martin, thank you so much for being here today.I'm genuinely grateful that you took a seat at the table and you trusted us with this story.I. I'll make sure everybody can reach you and the link to Zaidie's war and your website will all be in the show notes and on the webpage created for this episode. And honestly, thank you again. It's been truly an honor to have this conversation.

It has been an absolute delight and I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors. And thank you kindly and lovingly for having me thank you.

Thank you. Listening to Martin's story, I'm reminded that memory isn't just something we inherit, is something that we steward.His grandfather's journey shows us that survival isn't just physical. It's emotional, cultural, and generational.And Martin's work reminds us that telling someone else's story is an act of love, responsibility, and courage.And the truth he shared with us today, the one his grandfather's story helped him finally see, is a reminder that carrying a legacy isn't a burden we're handed. It's a gift we chose to keep giving. Because becoming isn't just about who we are, it's about who we carry with us.So that's a wrap for today's episode. I hope you found it. Inspiration, motivation and a few new perspectives to take with you.And if you enjoyed this conversation, please like, subscribe and follow us. Stay connected. You can find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform. You can head over to YouTube and catch the full video version.In the meantime, have a great day, have a great week, and thank you for being part of our community. And until next time, I'm Michael Hirsch. This is One More Thing before youe Go.