Breaking the Chains of Inter-Generational Trauma: A Conversation with a Survivor

Hey, one more thing before you go. What happens when the trauma of one generation is passed down to the next? How do we break free from cycles of pain and find healing?We can answer these questions and more as we have a conversation about a story that is both heartbreaking and inspiring. A story of survival, trauma, perseverance, and the search for truth. I'm your host, Michael Hurst.Welcome to One more thing before you go away and don't go away Foreign. My guest is Nancy Heart. She's the author of Whispers, Sinners and Saints.It's a gripping, multi generational biography that uncovers the devastating impact of war, abuse, and disinformation while highlighting the resilience of the human spirit.Nancy's book takes us through the harrowing experience of Anne, a Hungarian woman who survived the horrors of Nazi persecution only to carry the weight of her trauma into motherhood. Her daughter Anna endured unimaginable abuse, but found salvation through an omniscient connection. All knowing.This raw and deeply personal account forces us to confront the lasting effects of generational trauma and the power of perseverance.In this episode, we're going to explore her journey in writing this book, the truth she uncovered, and the lessons we can all take from this extraordinary story. So stay with us as we uncover the whispers of the past of sinners who shaped destinies and saints who offered hope.And I'm excited about this conversation. Welcome to the show, Nancy.

Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here as well.

You know, it is. I have to say hello to my old home state, Colorado. So please say hi for me because I miss it.

Okay. I will go outside after the conversation and I'll wave a big hello for you.

Wave a big hello. Thank you very much. I know that you're not originally from Colorado, but can you. Can you. Where'd you grow up?

I grew up in New York City. Manhattan. In the streets of Manhattan.

Far cry from Colorado, huh?

A very far cry from Colorado. And, you know, being out there at age 3 in New York City and the streets in the 1960s was not an easy thing for me.But my mother said there's no war tanks out there, so you're fine.

And it's all perspective, right? It's all perspective.

It depends on how you look at it, you know?

Exactly.

To me, they looked like war tanks. To me, they look. They were very scary. Yeah.

You know, it, it's. It is. What brought you to. To. What brought you to Colorado?

Well, my mother always said to me that I was going to end up behind God's country. So I didn't belong in New York City. She'd always say that to me. And I was. I just go a little slower pace. I like to say hello to a lot of people.I have a different kind of way to me, and I've traveled the world and I said, you know, I just want to go someplace that's very friendly and easygoing.And then if I need excitement, I can always go and visit the big cities, which is great, which I love, and all the temples and churches and this and that. But for everyday life, I love the energy of the mountains out here.

You know, it's. I have several friends that are from New York, and that's where they ended up, actually.In fact, one of my old partners, he was a retired sergeant in. Out of New York City, and he came out and worked for the department that I was working at in Colorado.And he put himself right up in the middle of the mountains and he said, this is. I love this. He said, I miss New York occasionally, but he said, this is it. So welcome. Welcome to Colorado. That's pretty cool.Your book, I know that you. You're an author. What brought you to become an author? I mean, did you. Did you always grow up wanting to be an author? Did you want to go to college?Did you want to be a psychologist or a doctor or.

I knew I was going to write. When I was age 4, I had a experience with my mother, who was very abusive. And I had asked this omniscient being that I'm always con. In contact with.He's always with me. I call him Whispers. Hence Whispers. In the book, Sinner was my mom and the saint was my grandma. So I did.I had to make sense of things because my mother just. It didn't make sense how she always exploded. And he said to me, everything will be all right when I write.Well, I was 4 years old, so it took me a little bit of pacing up and down on the street that she threw me out to from the car outside of the park to figure out what exactly is right and right. You know, when you write, you're right. I mean, of course you're right when you write.So r I g h t And then I realized, oh, there's a different kind of writing writing. So when I write everything, everything will be all right.And I don't know, but the list, your listeners and yourself, if you know that spirit kind of talks to you and it has a sense of humor. So he was definitely right because when, by the Time I wrote, when I really started writing and I got this book published, my mother had passed away.So he was very correct in what he said. Once I'm right, once I wrote the book, everything was all right.

Did you go to university? Did you go to college? Or did you just go right into writing? That's not proper English, is it? Right into writing.

You know, and as long as you're expressing yourself and you work on it, it'll come out right. People will understand. I went to University of Miami. I did not go for writing.I went for psychology because I needed to figure out what was wrong with my mother. And I'm right.

I'm actually right there with you. I am.

You're right there with me, are you?

Definitely. Definitely.

I find it very helpful, psychology, you know? Yeah. And then I had children. I got married. I had to get married.Not because I got pregnant, but my mother forced me to get married because she wanted me to get an Mrs. Degree. So I did not want that. I wanted to get a. I wanted to always be a doctor because I like to help people. But I got an Mrs. Degree.I raised two children. They're adults now, and I did very well with them. So that's. That's my background, and I've traveled the world, and I'm also a Reiki master.I'm a healer. You know, I. I'm very. My gifts are well rounded. I'm well rounded. And I'm also clairvoyant, so clairaudient.That's my connection with Whispers, because he actually talks to me in my right ear, not my left one, only my right ear.

Well, I mean, I think that in itself is a gift. You know, I've talked to a lot of people on the show that. That are clairaudient. Claire. Claire. They're everything.They're medium from all perspectives. And some of them do all of the senses, not just one or two.Some have called it not necessarily a curse, but a burden, and others have said it was a gift.And, you know, I personally, I think that connection with the metaphysical, that connection with the other side, that connection with that omniscience. President. President. Excuse me. Presence is like, to me, it's a gift because you. You have insight that others don't have. You have the.You have guidance, you know, on a consistent basis. Somebody that's like, you have right there whispers in your ear. So that's pretty interesting.I know that your book Whispers Sinners and Saints, it's a. It's a deeply personal thing in the Spanish generations, kind of what inspired you to write this? Is there intergenerational trauma within your story?

Oh yes. I mean it's their stories within the stories. Each, each chapter is a story. And then about the multi generational.I go back to pretty much my mother's grandmother and even before that her. So my mother's great grandmother and how she affected how that it was that they lived.It's really interesting because my great grandmother, my great, her great grandmother grew up and lived in Hungary. And her husband was from Poland. And the horse, he was a traveling salesman, like from the real original traveling salesman's.He had a horse and he would tie everything onto the horse and between Poland and Hungary travel with the wares that he would be selling. He once he sold some of this is put in your order and then he'd go back and forth. And one day the horse died in Hungary.So he wound up marrying the prettiest girl in the village and opened up a first general store in the area. So she grew, the wife had everything. Because having a general store back then you did very well. That's, you had everything.You, you know, clothes, food, all that. So her, his children. One of them was my mother's grandmother.She grew up not knowing how to do anything because they always thought that she was going to get married and do well because they had dignitaries and they have all kinds of titles back then in Hungary they'd all seek out our hand. But they did not allow her to marry the man that she wanted to marry.And then one day she turned 28 and she said, okay, the guy that I wanted to marry gave up on me now and got married. So I'm just getting the first guy that comes to the door because at that, at those days, 28 years spinster.And she said, I'm just gonna get out of here. So in knocks on the door is my great grandpa to be. And he was a 6 foot 8 artist.He was commissioned to draw, make a portrait for somebody at a big mansion in Vienna. And he saw my great and great grandmother's picture on the wall and said, oh my God, I'm going to marry this beauty.And he carried this picture, this little small picture in his, in his little pocket. And when Regina was her name, when she answered the door, it was very strange because she was not the young girl that was in the picture.So he goes, oh no, I don't understand this. But she says, well, come on in. And then he married her for the money. He said, oh, all these nice things here I can have the Life that I want.I'm artist, distraordinaire. Well, her family disowned her. And then because he did not come up to par, they had eloped and gotten married.And so the next generation struggled in poverty. They were in the ghetto before the ghetto was marked the ghetto by Hitler's people in Hungary. And so she didn't know how to cook.She didn't know how to clean. It was. She had, like, six children. One I think she lost through a miscarriage. But three people eating one potato every night.They couldn't even afford the butter. It was terrible squalor. And then my grandmother wound up being. What do you call that? Roused out and taken to Auschwitz.And all the men were already gone. And my mother was left behind. She was about 11 or 12, like around that age. And she was. She was.My grandmother was very smart because she saw that times were changing. So she got her baptism papers. Her daughter. She got her daughter baptism papers. So my mother would go in and out of the con.Not the concentration camp, the. The gates of the ghetto, and take care of her grandmother, who was very, very skinny and dying of hunger. And. But that kind of.Then on top of that, what really, I think played a part in my. In my mother's not being well was she was an illegitimate child born in the depression in 1932. So it was very, very bad. On top of being Jewish.The Jewish part was. Was fine until Hitler came around. But it was very hard. And I think it. I think it. I. I don't know. I. Like, one day I'll feel like this.Sometimes I'll feel a different way. Because if she wasn't the tough cookie, she was. If she wasn't, she was very, like, very tough.Like, the teacher told her to pull her boots off in first grade. And my mother, which was very common back then, that's how you showed respect in Europe.Anyway, the teacher would sit down, lift her leg and show the boot and say, remove my shoes. And everybody did it. And my mother said, what are you, crippled? Take it off yourself.

Sounds like my grandmother actually.

Does it. Yeah.

Yeah. That's really interesting. How does that follow? I mean, is this. How does that correlate with the book?I know that we follow Anna and her mother and both through unimaginable trauma and resilience. Is it closely related to this particular story? Is this biographical? How does this relate to the book?

Yeah, that story is within that book. And I actually was born Anna. My mother didn't know what they were saying to her. And when they were asking her name, so she was Anna.And then at 5 years old, I said, I'm not doing this anymore. My name's Nancy. And I just wouldn't answer her. Whatever she did, I didn't care if she beat me. I just wouldn't answer it. She said, Nancy.Then I answered her. So I guess I have a little stubbornness in me too, but I kind of got fed up with running back and forth.My grandmother came out to America and I write all this in the, in the, in the book.But when she came out, I was five and I was really like about the first time I started to eat because my mother was highly negligent as a, well, as abusive. And you know, I, I mean, I didn't even know how to eat. I, I ate like an animal. My grandmother had to teach me how to eat.Nobody would sit and eat with me. Yeah, it was, it was, it was very hard. But what I had to get over was knowing that my mother hates me.From day number one from, from the moment she saw me, she would tell me from being very young that I'm. She, she, she tried to send me back, but they wouldn't let, they wouldn't let her send me back. She said it. She, she didn't want me.She wanted a pickle in the middle. That's the way she put it. And she didn't get the pickle in the middle. She wanted a boy.

I gotcha. Gotcha. The gentlemanly way of saying that she's.

Always like, it's a sandwich or something. But.

You know, it's interesting, I think, I think that those of us that have grown up in, I won't say in that kind of environment that grew up in a. I, I was a domestic violence cop for a long time. In fact, because of it, they grew up. I grew up with a very dysfunctional family myself.And in growing up as a dysfunctional family, you recognize it more and more, especially when you go into other houses.So that allowed me a better observation, perspective as a police officer when I worked at domestic violence task force and people don't always understand domest domestic violence is not just physical all the time, it's mental, mental and physical in that if it's perpetually put upon you and you're perpetually in that environment, I know that sometimes it comes unbearable and to even survive within that environment.So kudos first for coming out of it and wanting to make your own way and being able to make something positive of your life because that's where you've come to this point here.You've written this book that's shared, and you became a parent yourself, and your kids are grown, and you've made a life for yourself in a very positive way. So I appreciate that.In changing your name from Anna to Nancy, do you think that just gave you more confidence and fortitude and strength to be able to survive through all that?

Yeah, it's a good question. So, because my mother was Anna, I did not like my mother. I loved her. Don't get me wrong, I loved my mother, but I was nothing like my mother.And she would always say to everybody, we don't look anything alike. We're nothing alike. She's nothing like me. So I said, you know, why would I want to have her name?And then when I would, my middle name was Clara, which was my grandmother's name. But they would call each other, you know, to come over here, come over here. And I would show up, and then I would hear, no, not you, the other one.And after a while, there was just so much I could take of that. So Nancy happened to be the pretty Girl on the Edge of Night soap opera that my mother watched. And I had figured out that's the name I want.But I had to do it in a timely fashion. The. And I had to lead her into thinking that she thought of the name. And I had to ask only when it was in commercial time.So, you know, at age 5, my mother was already teaching me, like, you know, clear empathy. Like, I can feel people's emotions and, like, know when is the right time to say something. When is not the right time to say something. It's.But, yeah, I could not go and be Anna. Anna is a great name, though, as I'm older now, I love it because it means Mother Mary's M.Mother, you know, but my mother was no Mother Mary's mother. I must find it sacrilegious.

I can understand that. Very much. So in the book, then, I'm assuming Ann's survival during the Holocaust would be your mother?

Yes.

Yes. What was the most difficult part of recounting her within this?And I'm sure that this probably brought up an immense amount of emotion and anger and resentment and I'm sure a multitude of emotional aspects. What was the most difficult part of recounting that experience in those experiences?

Yeah. Well, the most difficult time was remembering it all the time so that I could make sure that I retell it.So in my spare time, which was most the time in transport between school and the library and Like, I had to be out of the house when the sun came up, and I couldn't be home until the sun was setting.So I'd be at the library or on the street or if I was running from my mother and I was in the house and I locked myself in the bathroom and I'd be in the bathtub. Hours of that, going over it and over it again. What.What in the book I find is very intense, this is an intense book, is that I take where she actually goes through a flashback of a situation where the Nazis killed a whole slew of people before my mother's eyes, and then her going and perpetrating her violence against me blow by blow. So that is one of the arcs in the book. But what I found, and something I did never expect, is I wrote a second book, a third book.I'm just waiting for the editor to be done. But after the second book, did I realize this was like the best.The best outcome that I could possibly have is that I always thought my mother didn't tell me that she loved me. And in reality, after I wrote the book, did I realize my mother said it, but she mispronounced it on purpose.Like, if I would say I love you in English, she would say I lurve you, but in Hungarian, it's imadlak. This means I love you. She'd never say imadlak. She would say imad luck.She had a hard time expressing love to me, but when I realized that she had said that I love you just in a. In a cuckoo way, it made me feel really good. I mean, I could tell you I got all. I got all choked up about it, and I got a sense of warmth and.And a sense of something like, fantastic. I never expected that to happen.

How do you think the writing the book, do you think it helped you to process understanding your family's history and the impact of generational or intergenerational trauma?Intergenerational trauma is an interesting aspect of learning what happens to us through generations and how we carry all of those traumas forward, not just the one previous to us, but several previous tours.

Yes, my artistic great grandfather had explosive disorder, which, yeah, I figured out while I was in college reading all those books about what. What was his problem. But that is what my mother also had is an explosive disorder.And there is a scene, I believe it's in my third book, where my grandmother and my mother actually come to blows, is. I'm not sure if it's my second or my third because I'm like kind of a little.But he would just take everything on the mantle and just, with one swipe, knock everything down and just yell. And there was a lot of fear with the children. They would hide in the corner. They only had a one bedroom, which was no real bed.It was like an efficiency today. And he would just holler and holler and holler. He'd pray five times a day or three times sometimes.And he was an orthodox Jew, but he could not control it.

We said he was 6 foot 8.

It was 6 foot 8. Yes. So he was a very, very big man.

Yeah. That in itself would create a very fearful situation, especially when they get angry and start losing tempers and things.

Yes, yes. I mean, combine that with being somebody that was. They were probably starving. So, you know, when you're hungry, you get hangry.And I cannot imagine, like a six foot eight man hungry guy.

Yeah, yeah. That would. That would. Yes, that would create a situation. I do believe. I do believe.Do you think Anna's connection to all knowing is a powerful theme in the book? Can you explain what that meant for yourself, actually, and then how it shaped the resilience and the fortitude that you now possess in your life?

Yeah, I could tell you that it was basically, I could say it was all that I had and it still is today, all that I have. But all the.I've come to find and conclude and realize that all the negative things that life has pushed me to, and with its tests, I really find answers, solace, and even a stronger bond, even a stronger belief. I. I do not. I don't know what it is for other people. I just know that for me there's no doubt that I have a connection.And without it, I would not be able to have survived without killing my mother, you know, or being in jail or having done drugs or turn to the bottle and look for my happiness on the bottom of the bottle. So because I have had whispers to guide me and I. I am. I am happy with who I am. As far as, you know, four second goes.

And you should be. And you should be. Hello, puppy. By the way, he's going, hey. Hey, how you doing?

I have a ham over here.

I saw. I saw him at the. I saw him pick up over there. Like, how are you doing?

How you doing?

Do you think? I know disinformation plays a role in shaping historical narratives and. And so forth. Do you think.Does your book challenge misconceptions about survival, trauma, and truth? Especially because it's. It's a lot of it. Surrounding the Holocaust and surrounding the persecution of.Of an entire race and as well as some of the other intergenerational things. How do you approach that in the book? How did you approach that?

How do I. I'm not sure if I understand. You're saying, how do I approach people that might say there was no Holocaust?

Well, no, I mean, the book itself. Do you. Do you approach that? That. Because I know that historically there's a lot of disinformation with what's going on.You have the unique ability of being able to present a story from a personal perspective and. And one that's close to you and your family. From that, do you find it hard maybe to. Maybe to hold back from trying to over.I won't say overcompensate because of the disinformation, because they're starting to rear his ugly head again, unfortunately. Does the book address that in any way?

You know, I just tell the truth. I just tell the stories that I overly overheard over and over and over again.The numbers that I would see on my grandmother's arm and my reaction to it and not. I said, were you writing a telephone number on their arm? I mean, what's wrong with you? That's not even your phone number. I was five years.Because you never saw it.We don't discuss this, but she would, you know, show me different signs that she would eat a grapefruit and put it on top of her head, turn it inside out, and she says, your gr. My father used to wear a hat like this. Well, I didn't know what she was talking about until. Yeah, the yarmul later on.Then she'd take a lemon, do the same thing for a lemon, and put that on top of my head. She goes, oh, that looks more like the bump. That's bumps that you have from your mother. Never mind. We throw that one in the garbage.So I just say it the way I heard the stories. And, you know, I took literature of the Holocaust in college. And it's always been like writing the book.I find since everybody is gone except, you know, now really everybody is gone. I only ever got to know my mother and my grandmother for a few years because she passed away.I feel like I'm spending time with family that I never really got to.And I am serving respect for people that really need respect and deserve respect and, you know, get rid of maybe some misconceptions like some people think all Jews have. I don't know what. And meanwhile, like, I made sure to tell you, my family was living in the ghetto before they circled it. The ghetto. It was so bad.So, yeah, I just say the truth, and I'm very authentic. I don't hold anything back.

Yeah. What you. Yeah, and exactly. It's how you should be. Was there an emotional toll of writing such a. Like a raw and personal story?Like, were the moments you felt like stopping? I asked this because I told you. I, I. From a domestic violence situation. I.I worked at domestic violence task force for like, five, almost five years straight. So watching dysfunction in families especially, and how that carried itself down. I know that people having to recount stories, it was very.It brought up where they. They stopped talking or they shut down or they. Did you have any moments like, you felt like stopping?

Well, what I would do is I would write the story and. And it would be, you know, basically, when I write a book, each book is written over 50 times because you write the story first, and you.When you read it the second time, you're like, what is this? I didn't fill in anything. It's just basically almost like bullet points or sentences and things like that. And yeah, there's.There are things that I had to write about, more personal that had happened to me, like in my second book that have happened to me that I. I couldn't even read it at some time. So I would read. I would read and redo and work. When I mean redo.I mean, you're massaging it and getting exact words and feelings and smells and. And you want the person to be in your shoes. That's what makes my book so intense, because you're saying, oh, my God, how is this even true?This can't even be true. It's so unbelievable because I make the person actually go through it, you know, and, yeah, there's times when I've had to skip, like, I know.Chapter too, in the. My second book. It's so bad that I write it in poetry form, but it's my personal. I went through a very horrific experience. And. Yeah, you. I'm. I'm.I have a lot of emotions. I have a lot of sensitivities. I'm not a cold person. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so sensitive. That is very difficult for me. But. Yeah.

Well, I'm sure the whispers in your ear are helping. How did you come up with Whispers, Sinners and Saints as a title? That's a very unique, catchy title, by the way.

Oh, I thank you for that. I appreciate it. Well, whispers is the person who speaks.And I says, you know, I'm just going to name it after the people that are the main characters in the book. Whispers Sinners. Sinners is my mom and Saint is my grandma. And that's how I came up with it. Yeah. And anything else I had was taken.

You write what you know. That's what they tell you, correct? Yes, Write what you know.What do you hope readers to take away from Whisper Sinners and Saints, especially those have experienced trauma or abuse, like for what your family has gone through and what you have gone through.

Okay. Well, I would like to make sure that I have a philosophy, and that is one who laughs loudest, masters life the best.And I would like to say, like a honeybee sucks the nectar from the rose, the rose does not wither from that. The rose instead continues to spread beauty and fragrance. So that's what I would like everybody to. To see metaphorically, that I think that.

That'S one, One message, one key message about survival, healing and perseverance with especially reading that book. Sounds to me something. Everybody can get that out of it.

Yes. Yeah. And yeah, absolutely. And then anger, it teaches forgiveness. So it's very important. And to heal anger, you need forgiveness. Forgiveness.Forgiveness will heal anger.So anything that you find that is a negative in your life also people need to see that it's really not as bad as you think it is, even though it's horrible and you feel it. But if you say there's got to be something in this that I can learn and become better.Not bitter, then the least there was a purpose for you having gone through what you went through as opposed to just, it's all their fault. It's their fault. It's their this and that. No, you gotta turn out to be better and not better.

I like that. Better not bitter. I think that's a. What are you. What a. That's a unique approach to that as well.I've not heard that before, but I think that that's a. That's a good way to approach life in general. Better, not bitter. Yeah, because we can get bitter about a lot of things, especially lately.It's kind of one of those, you know about everywhere you go, there's road rage or there's somebody angry or your next door neighbor's angry or the guy in the car next year behind you is angry, or the person in line at the grocery store angry.

And that's exactly like a little tap on your shoulder. And at that exact moment you're supposed to say, ah, okay, there's a test. I'm being tested right now. What is that test?Why is that action bothering me? Why should that bother me? And within there is the lesson and.

Whether or not you. Yeah, don't. Don't lash out and smack them.

Yeah. Who's who? You. Like what? See, ego gets in the way. Like what? How dare they bark at me? Or how do they honk their horn at me?Well, you're just a regular guy. Don't take it personal. The guy's having a bad day. You just have to say, boy, someone's having a bad day. And. And laugh at it. Just. Ha ha.

Exactly. Exactly. Take it, take it. And again, it's just a great statement all the way around. How long did it take you write the book?

It took me. It took me eight months to sit down and write the book.

Yes, yes, you. I know you said you've got several. Several out.

But not out yet. The. I'm waiting for the editor. The second book coming back. Yeah, and then I'll get a title this time. I'll be getting a title very shortly.I've got a few in the works, but we have to work on it together. I. And I don't want to say because if I don't get that one, then somebody else will steal it and I might want it later. So.But yeah, and there's sequels. They. Each book will stand on their own, so you could read each one separately. But this, the second book, is definitely not as violent.The first book, I put the violence in there because I'm trying to make a point that, yeah, I am a happy person, but, you know, all this stuff did happen to me and here's proof. And that I've gotten over these things. And then more and more it's a continuation of what really makes a person, you know, claircognizant, Clair.Empathic, clairsentient. Claire Tangent, all those things. Clairaudient.

Well, I think it's an opportunity for us to really understand more about life within ourselves and what else is out there. And listen. Listen to the whispers that we may have and we may think that this is the fly bug in us and just try to, you know, get away. Get away.

Yeah, definitely. It's like, so if you use it, it'll grow. And if you don't use it and you just say, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Well, you're missing out.I think you're missing out on something very magical in life.

Your guide will give up and go sit over there and have a cup of coffee and.

Yeah, don't go somewhere else. Exactly.

How can somebody find Your book?

Well, you can get my book anywhere, actually. You can go to any bookstore. It can go anywhere. Spotify. But I like Amazon. It's just the easiest thing. Order it on Amazon. It's also audible.I did it myself in audible. I'm very animated, so I had a good time doing that. And.

And you have the. You have the right accent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I put in the Hungarian accent when that was necessary, you know.

Exactly, exactly. And your website, please.

Yes, my website is nancyheart.com which is.

Really easy to remember. Just remember, Nancy, with heart. You wrote this book with your heart. So that's an easy way to put that.I know they can find you on Instagram and a whole bunch of other social media. They'll all have all of those links in.In the show notes, as well as on a webpage dedicated specifically to this episode, including one that they can click and follow the link to get your webpage to get your book.

That sounds great. Please do so.

What a wonderful opportunity to be able to share some of your history, to kind of relive some of that history to forgive, which I think is a really good opportunity. Get better, not bitter. See, I love that. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep saying that, if you don't mind.And then to also allow others to be able to live through you and understand that there are people that no matter what you're going through, there's always hope at the end of the tunnel. And, you know, you just gotta look for the light and follow for the light.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

This is one more thing before you go. Before we go, do you have any words of wisdom?

Sure. Anything that takes power over you teaches to reclaim your power.

Absolutely brilliant words of wisdom. I appreciate that. Nancy, thank you for being on the show. I appreciate you writing your book. I appreciate you sharing that.As I just said a minute ago, I think that it's an opportunity for us to have a better understanding of other people's lives and how they might affect us and how we can use that as a lesson to move forward in our own way. So I appreciate you very much.

I appreciate you too. Michael Hurst, you're very good commentator and a very good interview. Appreciate you most.

Thank you. Thank you very much. For everyone else out there, thank you very much for being a part of One More Thing before.Before you go Community again, Nancy's links will be in the show notes. Please, like, share, subscribe. And One More Thing before you all go. Have a great day and have a great week and thank you for being here.Thanks for listening to this episode of One More Thing.Before you go, check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com you can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.