Travel Is No Vacation: Love, Adventure, and 120 Countries

Hey, one More thing, but before you go, what happens when two people spend more than 30 years circling the globe together, not as tourists, but as partners, storytellers and explorers of the human experience? What happens when travel becomes the language of your marriage, the rhythm of your life, and the lens through which you understand the world?Today, we're sitting down with two people who have lived that question and turned it into a love story, a memoir, a documentary, and. And a life's work. This is not a conversation about vacations. This is a conversation about transformation. And I'm your host, Michael Hirsch.Welcome to One More Thing before you go.Today, I am honored to welcome two extraordinary guests Ann Craig-Cinnamon and John Cinnamon, both partners in life, partners in broadcasting, and partners in business as well as adventure. Ann is a Hall of Fame broadcaster whose groundbreaking career shaped Indiana media.Together, she and John have hosted morning shows, built businesses, published widely created documentaries, and traveled to more than 120 countries, all seven continents and all 50 states.Their memoir, Travel is no A Love Story, is an honest, funny, and deeply human look at what it really means to explore the world and each other over three decades.And today, we get to explore their story and explore what truly makes travel transformative, especially when you share it with the same person for 30 plus years, as well as how did the people you meet along the way shape the story of your life? Let's dive in. Welcome to the show.

Thanks, Michael. Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

What an amazing life that you guys have led in totality from your broadcasting and journalistic aspects, authority traveling, the. What an opportunity to travel the world together.

Absolutely. And, you know, I. I've always said that travel is an education like none other.It makes history come alive, makes geography personal, because you got to get around.

Absolutely.

Learn the roads, and it's a cultural bridge as well to other people in different cultures and that sort of thing. So there's nothing quite like it. And I've done it most of my

life, and we've had the luxury of doing it together because we, frankly love

being together, which is brilliant in this day and age.

Yes, it is. It's kind of rare and it's wonderful.

It is, it is. Well, I like to start as a foundation. We'll start at the beginning.The two of you have been partners in so many ways in broadcasting and business, in life and in travel. When you look back at the beginning of your partnership, what made you such natural adventurers together?

She was more the adventurer. She had traveled extensively before we got together, before we got married.I had barely been outside the continental United States before we got married. So she's the traveler. I was more than happy to sort of enable, tag along, enable her kind of be, be the navigator. She's the travel dreamer.And I'm more of a hands on. How do you get from point A to point B? And it worked out great.

I grew up traveling. I visited 49 of the 50 states with my parents actually, and had traveled abroad a bit with them, not much.And then I got married the first time, my first husband at 19, and moved to Tehran, Iran and I lived there for a year and a half.And then when John and I got, well, I have two children, and then you kind of put travel on, on a back burner a little bit when you're raising kids and you just do, you know, more in our country, that kind of thing. But when John and I then got together, got married and, and we just did a Caribbean honeymoon, it was real easy, simple, whatever.And then the first trip was to Paris and England. And then the next year, you know, we go back to Europe and did Italy and Greece.And then it, then it became more, that's what we did further and further. And being sort of a travel junkie, you know, it's kind of hard to get your, your fix sometimes.So it has to get bigger and more complicated, which it did. And John came up with a theory for the way that I like to

travel while we're in the neighborhood. This first started probably more than 20 years ago when we had decided we wanted to go to Rio de Janeiro for Carnival.And Anne thought, you know, how often are we going to get back to South America? We should at least go to Machu Picchu in Peru while we're there.Well, going from Rio de Janeiro to Machu Picchu or Lima, Peru is like going all the way across the continental United States. That's not exactly in the neighborhood as most people would see it, but it worked out and that's sort of been the way we travel ever since.If we're going to choose one particular thing that we want to see, it's okay. Where else are we going to go during that trip and what else are we going to do?

Build an itinerary around it. And that has worked very well for us.

You know, that's interesting because, you know, when you, we, that's kudos to you guys first, first and foremost for being able to do this and to travel. In my wife and I, when we do, when we travel, we, we kind of have separate personalities. Just a Little bit.You know, I like to plan everything out, but that's just the cop in me. We'll say because I like a plan of action, right? We're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. We're this.She says, I'm gonna sit on the beach and I'm gonna do this and this and then we'll get to that stuff. Yes. But she doesn't like the itinerary aspect of it. She likes the what do you want to do today? And then we pick something kind of a thing.You've traveled together more than 30 years later like this. So what as a married couple, what does that taught you about each other and about yourselves?

I think that to that point you just made. We're both planners. We do like the itinerary. We're not real, you know, fly by the seat of your pants kind of, kind of travelers.So we both do like the, the planning aspect of it.But when it comes to the other aspects of it, as I sort of alluded to, I like the little sort of technical aspects of okay, how do we get from the airport to the hotel? What are the, you know, logistics, public transportation, driving, the mapping, the directions, things like that.And is more about the sort of big picture.

Yeah. So we pick a location and let's, let's do. As an example, we hiked the Himalayas. And that was several years ago.And it was as, as it turns out, we each independently, out of a hundred, more than 100 trips that we had taken together at that time, we independently picked it as our all time favorite trip. And the reason was because it was so hard but rewarding. We can get into that later. The people we met, so many things like that.But the, the impetus was seeing that you could hike the Himalayas. You don't have to go to base camp. We're not that hardy or hike, you know, to see, to climb Everest or anything like that.We're not hardy that way, but we wanted to at least see Everest and have that experience of, of hiking. And we learned that you could stay at tea houses, what they call tea houses along the way and, and this sort of thing.And we read about that in a magazine sitting in. Actually we were in Shanghai. Shanghai, when we read about it in the magazine and I immediately went, I want to go to there.And so in figuring all that out, you're not going to just go to Kathmandu, Nepal and then go to Lukla's where the start and all of that. You're not going to go that far and just do that. So we actually from there we went to Bhutan, a country that's not easy to get into.You have to have special permits and visas and whatever, but a country we loved and so enjoyed. And then we also did Sri Lanka while we were there.And then because it was kind of a hard trip, we often like to end hard trips with something that is kind of relaxing. And in that case, it was the Maldives, which we just loved. But we were sort of in the neighborhood, so that worked.But in any event, it was an all time, all time great trip and I would say the hardest that we've ever taken.

Yeah, I would imagine. I mean, there's quite a bit to do there.But I'm going to take to heart what you said about the we're in the neighborhood and maybe I'll try that next time. We'll get in the get in the rental and we'll drive someplace and say while we're here, Diane, we do plan

everything ahead for, for various reasons. One of them is because if you're going to go somewhere, you want to research it. What is there to see and do while you're there?And if you don't have it planned, you might, you either might not even know it exists or you might not be able to get in if it's a really busy tourist destination. So you want to, you want to get tickets ahead of time if you're, if you're going to Rome, you don't wait till you get there to go see the Coliseum.You want tickets, skip the line, you know, that sort of thing. So you're not in a long line all day. Vatican is even worse.And so you want to plan those things ahead of time to make sure that you get to take advantage of everything there is to see and do

while you're there, which is a brilliant way of approaching that because I think, you know, sometimes when you go someplace or we go someplace. Yeah. We always think about something after and say, oh, I should have done this, or we should have gone there.We should have done that kind of a thing.

And I've hated it. So that's where it's like, you know, let's do everything while we're there.And that takes, that takes research and it takes booking and planning and that kind of thing. But it's so worth it.

Well, I mean, your book is honest about the highs and the lows. The travel isn't always glamorous. Sometimes it's messy, it's unpredictable, even when it's uncomfortable. Why is it important to tell the truth?About travel instead of like the Instagram version, because I know that there's been some places we went. My wife and I went to Chichenichu and Tulum, and we stayed at Playa del Carmen before Playa del Carmen became this huge resort.In fact, they were trying to sell us a timeshare because they were building that resort.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

But we went to Playa del Carmen when it was like, you know, just a little tiny place. And, and then we took a, A ferry over to Cozumel while we were there. But it in.In the, in Plato Carmen, the hotel we stayed at was locally owned by a family. We go in and there's red ants. I mean, red ants everywhere.We called the guy up and he walked up with a can of Raid all the ants and said, okay, when they're dead, call me back.

So he was responsive to your needs. He was a problem solver.

And my wife said, what are we doing here? But we still had a good time. But, you know, like I said, there's glamorous. Been in suites where it was absolutely beautiful. Maui was fantastic.You know, it is. You have those areas, but you also have some that, that. That aren't so glamorous.And so why is it important to tell the truth and not the Instagram version?

Because that's. That is the very thing. So much of what people see today is social media posts and influencers showing you only the best stuff.Oh, look how beautiful this beach line is or how beautiful this hotel is. And that's not always the case. If somebody, if some influencer shows you a picture of themselves on some secluded beach. Oh, and, oh, let's go there.And you get there and suddenly realize there are a thousand other people that saw that same post and it's not secluded at all. And so it's. It's very much like that. In many cases where we are trying to show in our.In our book and the stories that we tell, that it's not always glamorous. There are some downsides. And so there's. There's more to life than just. And more to travel than just these Instagram and, and TikTok posts.

Well, only the best stuff and things do absolutely go wrong.And often when you're really not expecting it, whether it's missing connections or losing luggage or more serious things like having a pulmonary embolism on a trip or being held by Russian security for a couple of hours. Also this guy, or not cool.

You think she would learn to not travel with me because I'm Just a problem.

Yeah,

they happen. And, and it's, it's how you deal with them, how you handle it.And you know, if, if those kind of things are going to scare you off from travel, you're probably not going to be into travel that much because, you know, it can be scary. We've done things that are downright kind of frightening, I guess, but I still want to do it.

Well, then we need to dig a little deeper. Remember I told you my previous profession? Right. Well, now those questions or come in just a little?

Sure.

You guys have visited more than I think in my notes, like 120 countries. I mean, that's like amazingly crazy cool.And I don't know how else to say that the opportunity that you have to be able to visit, integrate within and sample the cultures and the societies of 120 countries is just like some wild. Some of your adventures are remarkable.Guerrilla trekking in Rwanda, snorkeling with sea lions in the Galapagos, hiking in the Himalayas, which you were talking about, Sea Everest, even visiting Chernobyl. When you think about that transformative moments, that, that ability to connect with society and cultures from all over the world.Do you have any, any moments that maybe rise to the top of that?

Absolutely. Well, let's start with Trans Siberian Railway ended in Beijing. We went from Moscow to Beijing and we went to Tiananmen Square.Yes, the Tiananmen Square on a Sunday afternoon. At the end of. It was towards the very end of the trip.And what we found were families out enjoying a beautiful Sunday afternoon, just like we would do here in our country. We all these parents, grandparents and kids and whatever. And they not only noticed us.

Well, I'm six three, so walking around, you know, Chinese people, I sort of stuck out like an American sore thumb.

But they all, they wanted their picture taken with us. Everyone was unbelievably, unbelievably friendly. They, you know, were giving us peace signs everywhere.We got pictures of little kids doing this and they wanted their picture taken with us. At one point I had this Chinese woman, didn't speak any English.She comes over to me and she's got her phone up and she's got her selfie stick and she goes like this. And I went, okay. I assume that she wanted just a, a picture of the two of us.And she starts it and she starts moving me around and I looked at John like, I don't know what's going on here.And it went on for a minute or so and then she stops it and gives Me this one minute, you know, sign, and then she plays it back, she put it to music. So she made a music video of herself with this American woman in Tianan Square with Forbidden City behind us and all that kind of stuff.And you know, that, that's one example. The other example we always give in terms of just poignant moments or whatever is Cambodia.

We were touring Cambodia near Siem Reap and Angkor Wat.And we were with our tour guide and we were driving down this old country road there and saw these little shacks, their little local houses up on stilts. And we asked our guide if we could stop and see one up close.So we pulled over to the side of the road where somebody was cooking something near the side of the road. He took us to this house where this man and his wife were just sitting there.And through him, through our guide, we asked if we could just look at the house and take some pictures of him and his house. And so we snapped a few and we were there for a few minutes. When we were done, we, as a thank you to him and his wife, we just gave him $5.Hey, thanks for letting us come into your home. Here's $5 and I'll let Ann take it from there.

So he. Now remember, this is a two room house. They have like numerous children. And apparently they raised sugar cane behind the house.

And it's a tiny little thing, it's maybe tiny house, 12 by 12ft.

Yeah. And so when we gave him the $5, he looks at it, throws on his shirt and runs out to the side of the road.And as it turns out, that's his daughter out at the side of the road cooking something. And it's sugar cane. They cook it and they make it into candy that they sell to tourists.And she, he had her wrap up a couple of pieces in each things and he actually made it, made it like a straw, a little container or whatever, and gave us each one as a thank you. And the point was, he did us the favor letting him in his house that we could take pictures and, you know, and, and, and see his home.He clearly didn't have to do that. And we were just, you know, giving him as a thank you. He wouldn't take our money without giving us something in return.

And here's, here's a guy with virtually nothing in the world. No earthly belongings, no wealth, just this little house. And he would not accept that cash without giving us something in return.It was the most beautiful gesture we probably ever experienced.

We were literally in tears in the back of car as we drove away, because such. Such a sweet man. And we love the Cambodian people. They were all very, very sweet.

I think that gives us an opportunity to really understand being grateful for what we've done in life, because not everybody has the same thing that we have and that we should be grateful for what we have and who we have in our lives, kind of a.

And that's part of travel that, you know, I really think that everybody who can should leave the country at least once. So you can compare what a wonderful, beautiful country we have, that we have so much and that this is rare in the whole world.What we have is unbelievably rare. And a lot of the world unfortunately lives in poverty. To extend that, you know, a lot of times we do.We do get presentations about travel and that kind of thing. And we always encourage people to try to do something, to leave something behind when you travel, if you can.So back to Cambodia, one example, our guide, Seth was. His is. His name was guiding us around and we noticed that there, there were wells with people's names on them and it

would be like tourists names.

It was like a family name. And they're. And they're. Where they're from.

Yeah.

And so we asked Seth about it, you know, what, what is this?And he said, well, people see how the Cambodian people live here and that they don't have fresh water, clean water to drink, and so they'll donate and have a well built. And so we said, we want to do that.And so the next day he took us to this place where the government had given poor, the poor and disabled, in some cases, land to live on. And it was. They had makeshift, makeshift homes on this, on this property.

And we found a spot. He showed us a spot where it would be a good place for a well to be dug. And so we chose that place. It was a very, very low cost to have it done.And so that was the spot. And many of the village residents were following us around and sort of, you know, they knew what was going to happen. They knew we were there.

They had been told that we were there to donate, and they were sort

of bowing and it sort of, you know, it makes you uncomfortable. We're, you know, American tourists. We're not being.We're not used to being, you know, practically worshiped, but we were, you know, we found the place to, to dig the well. And so probably a week or so after we got back from the trip, we're at home.We got an email with the picture of the people standing around the well and the sign that said well, provided by Anne and John Cinnamon, Indianapolis, Indiana. Interestingly, they spelled my name J, H, O, N the Cambodian way. I guess that's the Cambodian way. But, but still.And frankly, we told them the, the cost of the sign. We said, oh, we don't, we don't need the sign. We don't need to promote ourselves. Our guide explained, it's not to promote us.It's so that other tourists see the sign and are encouraged the same thing. That's what got us to do it. We saw someone else's sign for a well, so we thought, hey, let's do that.

Which is a brilliant. I mean, what a. It's an amazing opportunity. I mean, it's me. It makes travel kind of meaningful because it's not about just the destination.It's of people you meet and the moment that you shared. I mean, you guys shared moments with these individuals that.

Right.

That connected cultures.

Yes.

Together in such a way that was beneficial to both of you, which I think is amazing.

It was heartwarming for us.We, you know, it makes you feel good that you can actually do something, but it's kind of life altering for them if, you know, suddenly they can have water available to them or whatever.So we encourage people to try to find something either before you go or while you're there, while you're traveling, to leave behind because it doesn't usually cost much or take much to do it. And you can really make a difference in people's lives.

Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, even in today's society here in the United States, you know, I, I, in my old profession, I saw people at their worst.I saw the best people at their worst.I saw, you know, I saw, you know, people living under the bridge and in caves and on the creek banks and things like this, as well as a one, one room that was in an abandoned, abandoned house and they had kids sleeping on the floor and the place was falling apart kind of situation.So, you know, I, from that perspective, I have a different outlook on society and culture because I know that there are places in the world, home, here in home, as well as across the world that again, don't have as much as we have or need an opportunity, just need a break or just need something. So what you. Thank you for doing that. Because what you've given is you've given life to these people. Water is life in many places.

Yeah.

Which is like, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

And you can donate, you Know, to do that even, you know, look out, look out. Or an opportunity. Even if you're not visiting Cambodia, you can do that sort of thing. They need wells all over the world, in Africa, everywhere.Yeah, there's a lot of places that. And it's not that expensive for us. It's like a utility bill.

Exactly.

So, you know, you can do it. If everybody did something like that, you can make a difference.

And for them, it's the world. It opens a whole new door for them to be able to survive and have a better quality of life all the way around.

Yeah.

So, yeah. What a brilliant.

And we take it for granted.

Well, that's a brilliant message, though, that. That we're providing. I think that you guys have provided for everybody that's watching and listening. The.The fact that we all are all human beings, we're all community, and we all need sometimes a helping hand.

That's right.

If you have the opportunity to do it, do it. But not every moment's magical. I know this as well. We just talked about it. What about the other side of the coin?You have the hardest and most strangest or unexpected experiences that taught you something important other than what we just spoke about.Because what you spoke of, I think, is more to show that we should be grateful for what we have and that if you do leave something, you should leave something behind in a positive way.

Well, we did allude to it a moment ago that prior to the. At the beginning of that Trans Siberian Railway trip, we were flew into Moscow from Uzbekistan. And as we were getting.Going through passport control, normally Ann and I will be in the same line going to the passports. For whatever reason, we chose two different lines. She's over here, I'm over here.I get to the line, they look at my passport and they say, okay, can you step aside for a moment? Okay. And Ann just went straight through. And I sort of gave it the. And she looked back and I said, I don't know. Well, from that point, the.They held me. They had me cool my heels for maybe 45 minutes to an hour, just waiting. I had no idea what for.Ultimately, they took me to some basement office in the airport with two other people who didn't speak English, a woman who was the translator. And they started questioning me about what I was doing in Russia. Was I going to be meeting with politicians? What sort of documentation do I have for.For this tour that I'm going to be on? And this went on for half an hour, 40 minutes. And I had no idea why I was chosen how long it was going to be. And Ann was already on the other side.She had no idea what I was going through either.

So the. The gates came down after he. I could see him for a little while, and then they moved him, and he was sitting far away.And then all of a sudden the gates come down, and I'm like, okay, where is he? And my phone had died. He had the charger, so the cords and charger and all.

And so we couldn't even text each other to.

Couldn't talk to each other. I couldn't, you know, even call back home to. To, you know, do anything.So I went down and got luggage and came back up, and I was trying to grab people. I grabbed this one guard who didn't speak any English, and he was communicating through his phone, some translator, and, you know, what do you need?Or whatever. And I said, why are you holding my husband? And he. He looks at that and he starts typing it in and shows it to me in it.And it says, because it is necessary. Not an answer like what?

I say, that's.

Yeah, I. I'm sitting out there with all our luggage, and I'm. I'm about to make this spiritual whatever bargain. A bargain that I'll never drag him all over the world again. If we could just.Could he just please, please come out from Russian control. And, you know, eventually they did release him. It took a while. Tell them about the phone. What. What you do.

Oh, yeah. At one point during the questioning, they asked if I had my phone and could they see it was. I. I was in no position to say no. And, you know.You know this better than anybody. You've done this interrogation.So I hand them the phone, and they get into it, and they punch some numbers in and show me a screen that I had never seen before on my own phone. It was apparently some sort of serial number or whatever, and they wrote it down. And I assume for the rest of the time that we were in Russia,

they were tracked your phone?

I'm sure they did. They were probably following us, so that's crazy. Yeah, it was not a good experience, and. But it ended fine. And then we moved on to the.To the reason we were there. And since then, I think when we think back on it, why did this happen? I think it's because we were probably the only Americans on Uzbekistan Airway.We had come from Uzbekistan. We did Samarkand, and before that, Azerbaijan, and prior to.

Because we were in the neighborhood.

Because we were in the neighborhood. We were.

And so I'm Going to use that, John.

Yeah.

And I think it's because he was a man alone off of Uzbekistan Airways, an American all by himself. They thought he was CIA. Anything.

Because all CIA agents show up alone and in. Six foot tall and with an agenda.

Yeah.

And you. And you and. Were. Were a pony.

Yes.

Of no interest.

Yes.

There you go.

Yes, I. Right.

So. Yeah, well, that. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. That would be really scary not knowing because they. Obviously, they have control.They have all the control.

They have all of the control. And as.As I wrote in the book for that, that part of it, people have been known to disappear in that country or that part of the world, and there's no real reason. And that's what was going through my head as I'm sitting there. It's like I might. What. What happens if he doesn't come out here fairly soon?What do I do? What do you do? So, luckily it turned out okay, and

here he is, and I let him go. Wow, that's great. Well, I'm glad that you got out of it a great documentary, by the way. We'll talk about it in a little bit.But that documentary you guys created of that train trip, I think it's a brilliant way of kind of. Kind of highlighting and showcasing a trip like that, which is like, yeah, we'll talk about it here a little bit. The.Excuse me, you guys aren't just travelers, you're storytellers, which I appreciate. You've written the books, you produced the documentary. I just talked about exhibited photography and contributed to national tv.What drives you to document your journeys? I mean, I understand from. Especially from a journalistic and broadcasting aspect of it.My father was a journalist and he used to like to write about everything. So can you help us understand, you know, from that perspective, should we become our own documentaries? Yeah.

And frankly, it doesn't even have to be from the perspective of thinking, okay, we're going to go on this trip and we're going to document it with video and pictures and whatever to come back and create something. It doesn't have to be for social media or for a YouTube post. It's just, you know, for your own edification, for your own memories.In the process of going through the process of writing the book, I had taken a lot of contemporaneous notes as we did these trips, but in trying to refer back to certain situations, I went through a lot of the pictures that we took.I looked again a lot of the videos that we took, and frankly, that part of it was Just a, a wonderful trip down memory lane to relive those moments again.And whether you're doing it to post on social media or whatever, just to have those moments captured in some way so that you can relive them and maybe pass them down to family is. It's a, it's a great thing to have in your possession.

I think it's a, it is. You learn so much about yourself when you write about something that involves you and your feelings.And it, I think it takes a bit to, to dig down to find that. When I wrote my, my book about living in Iran, that was the first long form thing I had written.I mean, I've written a ton of stuff over the years, but not a book. And you have to find your voice and you have to determine how honest you really want to be about things.And you have to, you know, I have a pretty good memory and you. But it's that melding it to make it into something that is really a story and that maybe somebody could actually learn from.You know, people don't travel to Iran anymore. And clearly, you know, there's all kinds of issues with that and it's in the news all the time.And you know, I can tell you that I had my issues and problems there, but I also had some wonderful times and some people and Iranians liked Americans and really wanted to meet Americans.And that was part of the point of that book so that, you know, people have a better understanding of what people in other parts of the world are like. That's part of this, that was part of the documentary, that people are people. We're not that different really.We have the same kind of hopes and desires for our family and, and for our lives in general and all. And, and so we're probably more alike than we are different.And so I just think that it's really, it helps you to understand your own feelings about things to, to write it out, to get, write it down. And we do have grandchildren.You know, I want them to know about these places and things and we're starting to take them to a little more far flung places and travel with them as well. Because it is something that I want them to learn. I think learning about cultures and people elsewhere is hugely important.

I appreciate all of that. I think that I remember as a kid, my father had an 8 millimeter camera.

Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, I did too.

There's no sound. One of the original silent movies, right?

Yeah, right, Absolutely.

But it, it gave an opportunity. Like even now I lost my father at A very young age. He died at 39 years old. I was only 17 years old at the time, so I find it.But now I will say, I don't want to get emotional. I find it valuable to me that I can go back anytime because we had since had those 8 millimeter films transferred over to like a VHS tape.And then of course, since we evolved to CD and DVDs and things like that, we had to upgrade again from there. But it gives me an opportunity to go back to memories that I'd forgotten about and didn't think about it. And you guys go, oh, yeah.So it gets good memories and very good memories.

Well, it's a way of holding your father in your heart.

Exactly. Well, the same thing with traveling.The only way you can revisit the memories of that travel is to document the memories that travel so that you can go back and say, hey, do you remember this? And you put that in front of you, and those good feelings come back sometimes, I guess.Why was I sitting behind the desk with the Russian on the other side? Yeah.

And we had such a great time writing this book. I, I had to talk him into it Took me a little bit of time to talk him into it. I mean, like more than a year or two.And once I did, and we started planning it and doing outlines and doing all that, when we got down to the writing, we got sort of a flow going, you know, Like, I, I would write certain things, he would write other things that are, are closer to him or, or whatever. And, and then we would write it and then we would read it to each other.And so we'd finish up whatever the chapter was that we were working on and read it to each other.And there were times that we would be in tears because not only did I find what he wrote to be moving and meaningful and whatever, but it's reliving a memory that I just love and hearing it from his, you know, his voice. And so it really became such a, I think, a great experience, just the writing of it.

Yeah, well, plus it comes with the radio voice, so it makes it that much more. There's that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, you know, I was, I watched your, your Journey to Journey on the Trans Siberian Railway, if I remember that correctly.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Brilliant. I mean, I, I, I appreciate documentary filmmaking wholeheartedly as a lot of my viewers and people know that.I did a documentary for my, I got a master's degree when I went back to university after I had to redefine my purpose and my capstone my thesis, excuse me, for my masters was a documentary film about one more thing before you go, where we took the creative arts and we put people's stories to them so that they got closure through the arts, through dance, through drama, music, and allowed me to kind of get a good handle on documentary filmmaking. So from that perspective, thank you for doing that. I think you've done really well with the documentary. It's on.It aired on PBS stations, but you have a link to it on your website that.

Right, on YouTube, right?

It's on. Yes, YouTube.

On YouTube, yeah. What, what drew you to that story? Why, why do you hope, what do you hope viewers kind of take away from that? I guess the, the.

We had decided already to take that trip and before we went on the trip, I think it was Anne's idea, you know, what, this is going to be so far reaching, you know, Moscow, Mongolia, Beijing, three different cultures that we should probably try to document it, literally film a documentary.And so we did get with some filmmaker friends that we know and, and other, you know, producers like that to get some pointer, pointers, because this was going to be our first, first try at it. And so we went into it hoping that we would meet people, talk to people, get their, get their perspectives of life in Russia and Mongolia and China.And as Anne pointed out earlier, as we found out pleasantly, people around the world have the same sort of senses of humor and same dreams and same, you know, pleasures as we do in America, whether it's the people, you know, sightseeing, Chinese people doing their own tourism in Beijing, or people on a Russian lakeside in Lake Bacall in Siberia, or people in Mongolia, it was, they're very, very similar. One of our, our guide in Mongolia, he's a Mongolian man. When he asked us where we were from, we said Indiana.And he said, oh, Reggie Miller, he is one of my favorites. He knew all about American professional basketball because apparently that's pretty big in, in Mongolia.And so here, you wouldn't have thought that as people here in America are thinking of Mongolia, they're thinking, oh, that's so far flung and strange and whatever. They like American basketball there and they know who the players are.

Well, and this, this guide had been a doctor and apparently they had a tourism business or whatever in the family. But, but he was an actual doctor at a hospital in Ulaanbaatar, the capital of Mongolia, and he wasn't making enough money to support his family.And, you know, this in doctors in our country, you know, you don't, you think that they probably have a lot of money and maybe they don't, you know, but that is the thinking. Well, in other parts of the world, you know, you're lucky. You can make a living being a doctor. And so he got into a different trade and just a.He spoke perfect English. Apparently his Russian was even better.And, you know, here's a brilliant guy, and we spent a couple of days with him and just so enjoyed that experience. And again, that is, you know, meeting people, finding we didn't have everything in common with him. He grew up on a gur, which is a.And his father is still a nomad. And so, you know, he had a very different way of life, but, you know, he's got kids and he had to support him.And, you know, we had the same situation with our guide in Cuba. He was a scientist. He had worked with Fidel Castro on projects. He didn't make enough money to feed his family. And one.One day got home and his wife said, all right, either we have the meat tonight or the kids do. And that's when he decided, I gotta. I gotta do something else. And he spoke Russian as well, and. And English. And so he. He started being a.You know, getting business with. At the airports and. And place. And cruise terminals and all to take people on. On tours and. And he was great.But, you know, these are the things you learn when you travel that you would never even necessarily think of.

Well, I like how you put it. We mentioned it a little bit earlier, about the fact that we're all people. We're all human beings. We all want the same thing.We want love, we want friendship, we want to eat, we want a roof over our head. We want clean water to drink, we want to go to the movies, you know, which. Yeah, we just. Sometimes we have to remember that people are people.We're all people. We're all human beings. And can we touch on. I know you have, like, a memoir. Walking Naked in Tehran is an exploration of identity, culture and place.How did your time in Iran shape the way you see the world today? And how does it contribute to your travels today with John?

Well, it was probably the start of knowing I could go somewhere that exotic. And that was the.Probably the start of wanting to see more of that kind of thing and being open to going somewhere that is so completely foreign and, you know, completely different culture, religion, the way people dress, everything about it. And that opened my mind to, well, I want to see more of this kind of thing. The title actually comes from a recurring dream that I had for Many years.And I would, in this dream, be walking down one of the big boulevards, and there were huge boulevards in Tehran. I don't know what it looks like now, obviously. And people are staring at me and pointing, and I look down and I'm naked.And so I rush to try to get in out of it, like to a shopkeeper or whatever. And they won't let me in, so nobody will let. Will help me so that I'm not out in the middle of all the public naked.And so I'd wake up in kind of a cold sweat. And I had, you know, and I did not love my time there, so I don't want you to think, you know, oh, my gosh, it was easy and I loved it. Not at all.It was difficult, especially as a woman. And I think, obviously my dream was an extension of that.The fears I had of, you know, being caught doing something that, you know, would be a bad thing, certainly in that part of the world and there in particular. And so that is where the title comes from.And then the rest of the book is pretty much, you know, my day to day and the different things that happened while I was there all the way to coming home and. And how that did impact me, and it certainly did change how I saw the world. And then a few years later, of course, Iran becomes what it is now.And I did have friends that were evacuated out of Tehran.

Right. Because you were there at the time before the Shah took over. This was, you know, mid-70s.

Right.

Yeah. What. What a. What a.A diverse opportunity to understand both sides of even that whole situation where you watch it transform into something that was completely opposite of what it was before.

Yes. And from afar, in that case, because I knew that the average Iranian really liked Americans, I made quite a few friends.And there were those that, you know, one time I was walking along with groceries coming from the Iran super, as it was called, and there were a couple of men coming towards me, and they. When they got to me, they did one of these so that I would fall down, lose all my groceries, and. And I sort of fell into a jube.That's what they call the big, huge gutter system throughout the city. And so I knew that it was probably because I was American, I didn't have my head covered. There was, you know, something going on there.They were very much more open to Americans living and being there at that time. So I wasn't that unusual. But I do think that they were trying to, you know, make a. Make a point about women.And so I had a few incidents like that for sure, but I also had some really nice, nice incidents as well. And, and again they're people and they. I know.I just feel in my heart that most of them do not like where their country has been and certainly on the world stage and that it's not what they want and but you know, there's no real voting over there, so who knows how that's going to end up. I hope it ends up much better

because yeah, I would hope so too. Let's tell everybody how to get a hold of you guys because I know you've got a lot to offer.

People can go to travelisnovacation.com learn more about the. The book there and there's some pictures, other, other videos there of some of our travels around the world.YouTube, you, I have a John Cinnamon YouTube channel that people can look for and find some videos there.

Go to Amazon to buy our book or Barnes and Noble and we're both on Facebook and Instagram and all of that as well if anyone wanted to reach out to us.

And I'll make sure that everybody has that link to get to you in the show notes would be quick and easy just to click it and get right to you. Make it great and simple. I have a. This is one more thing before you go, but I have a couple more questions before we go.Okay, so it's ah, one more thing. Right, Columbus. Yeah, this is the Colombo moment. I want to start calling that the Colombo moment. Hopefully I won't get a call from Columbus.People say hey, hey, yeah, just don't

arrest us at the end. Okay?

Exactly, exactly. No Russian in my background. It's all good.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

I know that we kind of want to know and after visiting 120 countries, you know, what's next?

Oh, literally what's next is Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia relatively recently opened to Western tourists. So we're going to make our first visit to Saudi Arabia in late March 2026.And while we're in the neighborhood, we're going to hit Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt, climb Mount Sinai and then wrap it up in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates. So that's what's next.

That's amazing. What's next. I think that that's a. What a brilliant. You guys were in a brilliant life. Look how much you get to experience between society and code.

Oh, I know. We're very, very, very grateful for that

personal question, I guess how does that affect. Since you eat a diverse set of foods all over the. All over the world. Does that ever present any issues?

Yeah, I always say I've been sick in some of the nicest places in the world. I do have a tendency sometimes to. I don't know if it's food related necessarily, but we have had food related issues over the years.And, you know, I mean, we like to try things. I don't know that I go nuts on things, but we do try things that are local.It is part of the fun of going somewhere, especially somewhere exotic, is trying their food. And usually it's all, it's all good.I mean, there are things that, you know, I don't necessarily like, things that are too spicy or too hot or too whatever, but, you know, willing to try most anything.

We've had yak in Tibet. We've had alligator in South Africa. So just a couple of things there.

My favorite, my favorite, one of our favorite series is somebody feed Phil. And somebody feeds Phil. He travels.

Oh, right. Yes.

And documents that in his, his mantra. Just try it.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that.

Yeah, that's his mantra. So I still can't get past some of that. It's like, no, I'm not going to do that.

Yeah. We will normally try almost anything and you don't have to take more than one bite. You know, just try.

It'll never be spiders on a stick.

No, we have to draw the line.

No, here's where we drew the line. Here's where we drew it. We drew it. In Ecuador, they eat guinea pig.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. We have. We had pet guinea pigs. I don't think so.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. They have them in the, in the store window, the restaurant window. And it was like, no, so we did not try that.

But this is one more thing before you go. So before we go, any words of wisdom for a future traveler?

Get out there and do it. Travel.

Sure.

Brilliant and simple. Brilliant and simple. Brilliant words of wisdom. And John, thank you very much for joining me on one more thing before you go.I really appreciate both of you and what you contribute to us from a society and culture perspective. You're giving us an open window and an open door to explore. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Michael, thanks for having us.

Enjoyed our conversation very much. Thank you.

Travel doesn't just show us the world, it shows us ourselves. And when you share that journey with someone you love, the story becomes richer, deeper, and infinitely more human.Ann and John, thank you for reminding us that the world is vast, people are extraordinary, and that the best adventures are the ones that change us. So that's a wrap for today's episode. I hope you found inspiration, motivation, and a few new perspectives to take with you.If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to, like, subscribe and follow us and stay connected. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite listening platform, and you can head over to YouTube and catch the full video version.In the meantime, have a great day, have a great week, and thank you for being part of our community. So until next time, I'm Michael Hurst. This is One more thing before you go.

Thanks for listening to this episode of One More Thing before youe Go. Check out our website at before youe for yougopodcast. Com.You can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.