A Taste of Madagascar: How Food, Travel, and Human Connection Redefined a Life

Michael Herst00:00:00

Hey, one more thing before you go. What if the journey that changes your life doesn't begin with a crisis, but with a flavor?What if the place you travel for work becomes the place that rewrites your purpose? Today, we're exploring Madagascar.In this episode, we're stepping into the story that blends food, culture, identity, travel, any unexpected paths that shape who we are and who we become. It's going to be exciting, so stay tuned. I'm your host, Michael Hirsch. Welcome to One more thing before you go.My guest was born in Versailles, France, just steps away from the legendary Chateau of Louis xiv. He grew up surrounded by the flavors, the traditions, and the culinary heritage that defined French life.His mother taught him to cook at 6 years old and started with a simple yogurt cake, moving on to Kishorein from her home region. In 2015, he partnered with Star Chefs. In 2018, he launched the Flavors Unknown podcast.And soon after, he published his first book, Conversations behind the Kitchen door. It featured 50American chefs and their insights in today's food culture. We all love food, food.But everything changed when the contest he created centered around vanilla. It took him to Madagascar in 2022. What began as a professional trip became a personal awakening.That journey became his newest book, A Taste of Madagascar, a blend of travelogue, anthropology, culinary storytelling, and the voices of Malagasy farmers, artisans, and chefs. Welcome to the show. Emmanuel Laroche.

Emmanuel Laroche00:01:48

Hey, Michael. Thank you very much for having me. I'm really excited to have a conversation with you.

Michael Herst00:01:54

What an amazing journey that your life has been on, especially, I mean, I love the aspects you got, the experience, the surroundings, the food, the culture, everything about what we take in with our eyes, what we eat and put in our mouths.

Emmanuel Laroche00:02:10

Oh, absolutely.And food is a great medium for people to get together, bring people together, be around like, you know, a plate at a restaurant with friends, family, making new encounter, you know, like meeting new people. So it's been like big creators, you know, since I'm a little kid. And thank you for this introduction. I should have you have my publicist.You're pretty good, I have to say.

Michael Herst00:02:41

I can only. What I'm. I'm just a. I am just a funnel to which your excellence comes out. We'll say that this is what, like.

Emmanuel Laroche00:02:51

Podcaster, host are, you know, the best for. And. And you're doing a very good job.

Michael Herst00:02:57

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, Emmanuel, you grew up in Versailles as a place steeped in history, beauty, tradition.How'd your childhood near the chateau and your Mother teaching you to cook at 6. Shape your early relationship with food.

Emmanuel Laroche00:03:12

Yeah, so I was born in Versailles, and, you know, then after that, my parents moved a little bit further southwest of. Of Versailles, the town called Rambouillet. Very complex, I know, for the American years. But, yeah, I spent a lot of time with.With my mom in the kitchen. My dad was French, English, sorry, French, Latin and Greek.T teacher, and my mom was, you know, mother at home, and I spent a lot of time with her and I started to learn the ingredients, foods, and, you know, she taught me basic recipes. And, you know, When I was 7 or 8, she taught me how to put together, like, a quiche Lorraine. That was the region where she was from and from scratch.So, you know how to meet the crust and you know how to deal with the topic when, you know, the eggs and, and the cream, the milk and. And the strip bacon. So. So that's part still of my, of my key recipe today. And of course, with my travels after, you know, in my role of a.In the food industry and then moving to the U.S. now I do other kind of kishis when, you know, I mix some ingredients and, and put some, like, Japanese influence in in it and so on. And I still have the voice in my. My mom, you know, in the kitchen behind me saying, like, this is not the traditional recipes.Quiche Lorraine has to be made with a certain number of ingredients, nothing more. But I'm such a foodie that, you know, I decided to explore, you know, that what's the basic recipe with. With other influences.But you still have the voice of your mom, you know, wherever you're from.

Michael Herst00:05:01

Always, Always. You know, it's interesting. We come from different cultures, different opportunities, but I had the. I. I guess I, I was lucky in certain aspect.My sister Mary, I have Italian in my family. I have a little, little bit of French in my family, about 23, which is.

Emmanuel Laroche00:05:19

Nobody's perfect, you know.

Michael Herst00:05:21

Nobody's perfect. Yeah, that's where I get my good looks from. Right.

Emmanuel Laroche00:05:25

I thought it was the Italian side.

Michael Herst00:05:28

Either one. We could pick one. Right. So it's interesting because then my sister, my mother was. Grew up in a Southern environment.So when I was very young, that was. The food we ate was from a Southern perspective. And my sister married an Italian from Rome and literally, literally spoke no English.So I helped him to learn it, to learn English, and I, in the process learned Italian well. We became very close as brothers. So in learning that, I lost my father at a very early age. And because of that, you Know, we became really connected.Well, he brought a bunch of his families and more friends over, and we all lived in the same apartment complex.So I got the Italian aspect of food and how to eat and how to have conversations at the table and, you know, how to cook and in, in really cook kind of a thing.

Emmanuel Laroche00:06:29

So we have that in common. And I lost my dad when I was 12, so, you know, young age as well. Thank you. But. And, yeah, and, and food, I think we have that in common as well, so.And the food coming from the Rome area in Italy is amazing. So I'm sure that you, you have been exposed to great food.

Michael Herst00:06:50

Yes. Rome, Sicily, Napoli.

Emmanuel Laroche00:06:54

Naples. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Michael Herst00:06:56

Those three regions. We're friends. Roberto was friends with people from those regions and we have family in Sicily.So it's kind of one of these things where it opened my whole my life in regard to that. And my brother went the southern route. Okay. So I don't eat at my brother's house very often.

Emmanuel Laroche00:07:15

Oh, there's some good food. I love. It depends where in the South. But, you know, I love, I have to say, I love biscuits. So the biscuits are great.I know every time I go to the south, that's the first things. First of all, I have to be patient.It's when I go into a bakery or a place to get food because I live near New York, coming from France, so it's always like, you know, hop, hop, hop. And then I'm like, no, now I am in the South. Okay, let's. Let's take the time. And I got my biscuits. So that's.

Michael Herst00:07:48

I, I have to admit, biscuits and gravy used to be my favorite breakfast. Used to love biscuits and gravy. It was. Especially if they're made the right way. Biscuits and gravy work out really, really, really well.Anyway, that's another conversation. No, that's all right. It's a whole nother conversation. But it gave me getting that Italian influence.It gave me a very strong appreciation of food and the meals and the time to take the time at the table and take the time to eat and enjoy your meal kind of a thing. Especially like in America, you know, we're fast paced here. Everybody wants instantaneous gratification. They want the fast food environment. They.It adapted to it, and I learned that and I'm grateful for it. You, as you grew up, you earned the nickname Champagne Charlie.What does that say about your personality, your palette, and the way you connect with people through food and drink?

Emmanuel Laroche00:08:42

How did Champagne Charlie come about in Fact, it's my. Not my current. My. My previous boss, the president of the company I work for here in the US Because I always bring food in the conversation.And I'm in charge of marketing for a company that manufacture, you know, flavor natural extracts, you know, for the food and the beverage industry. So we do a lot of things around food.We need to understand the food trends, and we are doing explorations and tasting tricks, you know, around the country. We take customers, you know, with us. So food is always part of the conversation. And.And I'm known within the organization to know the place where to go, you know, in a specific city. So large cities, you know, from Seattle to San Francisco to Chicago to New York, Miami, you know, Nashville, whatever.I will always know, like, a chef, you know, that's as well, the reason why I have the podcast and I have those in, you know, conversation with chefs and pastry chefs and mixologists. And so every time it's, oh, Emmanuel, we are going there. Do you know anyone there? Which restaurant should we go to? And I'm like, sure, no problem.I give you a short list. So. And it's always, you know, I. I love oysters, I love foie gras, I love, you know, a good wine and so on. So.So it became, like, in our leadership team, became like a joke to say, like, oh, champion Charlie, you know, what. What's the new thing? So that's where the. The nickname, you know, came from.

Michael Herst00:10:21

Well, that works. It fits. It works. It fits. It's. When we go to New York, you make it a phone call from me.

Emmanuel Laroche00:10:28

Exactly. Yes. And don't hesitate. No, no problem.

Michael Herst00:10:31

You know, it. It's. As a cop that was working the street, we always had to know where the best places to eat.

Emmanuel Laroche00:10:36

Yeah.

Michael Herst00:10:37

As I grew up, street food is.

Emmanuel Laroche00:10:38

Fantastic here in the U.S. so, yeah, you have to.

Michael Herst00:10:40

You have to.You have to know the good places because one can give you indigestion or one can give you, you know, a nice taste of what you just ate that lingers for a little while. It's all. It's all good.

Emmanuel Laroche00:10:53

Yeah, exactly.

Michael Herst00:10:53

Well, before Madagascar entered your life. I know, like you just mentioned, you spent more than 30 years in the global food and beverage industry. That's. I mean, that's a long time. You guys.You moved here in 2002, correct?

Emmanuel Laroche00:11:03

Yeah. 2002. Yes, absolutely.

Michael Herst00:11:07

Yeah.

Emmanuel Laroche00:11:07

It's been 23 years. Yeah.

Michael Herst00:11:08

23 years. Yeah. Boy. Really? That's. Yeah, that's kind of. You stop and think about how time flies.

Emmanuel Laroche00:11:17

Yes, absolutely. My kids were 10, 6 and 4. And now they are 32, 29, 27. Yeah. And then the two youngest one has more Americans that they are French for sure.The oldest one decided to go back to France and he joined the French Navy, um, so after high school here and. But the two, the two others, yeah, they, they, they don't have these charming French accent.

Michael Herst00:11:43

They don't have the chair now.

Emmanuel Laroche00:11:44

No, they don't lost it.

Michael Herst00:11:49

How did those years connect you with some of the world's most acclaimed chefs, mixologists and culinary invaders? I think you, you kind of talked about it a little bit. But had you expected it to open those doors for you like that? Had you ever wanted to be a chef?

Emmanuel Laroche00:12:02

I, I think maybe like in back of my head there was something my uncle, so my, this brother, my mother's brother was a chef and owned a restaurant and in a hotel in Jura, in, in France. And when I was a kid during the summer vacation, you know, I spent some time there.The, the rules were not the same at that time, so I had the chance to be behind the bar, even if I was probably more around like 15 or 16, and serving, you know, guests and making drinks and, and it always fascinated me. Unfortunately passed away, you know, as well, young and I didn't continue.And then when I did mention to my mom that, you know, cooking is something I like, and she said that's, that's not, you know, the right job for you. No, because I guess she have seen how hard it was for her bro. So. So she said no.Yeah, so I went to, I went for chemistry, so which was something close, you know, because food is about chemistry.And, and then when I graduated from my mba, after my master in chemistry, I. I did my internship at a flavor industry in Grasse, the southeast of France. So in the suburb of Nice, if you, you know, the French Riviera area. And I fell in love with it.I think I annoyed my family, my friends during the, the whole term of my internship and because I, I brought back some extracts and I was doing things in the kitchen with them and, and, and I found that place was that kind of the intersection with chemistry, with food and then, you know, and potentially travel. And that's three things that I love. And yeah, I had the chance to go to the U.S. the company sent me there for four years.I went to Wisconsin, love the pace of the business. Had to go back to France, but said, hey, my back of my head, I said one day I will go back. And that happened in 2002.So the company said, hey, there's a chance to lead the marketing team. Are you still interested? I'm like on my way, so. So I've been in New Jersey, just next to Manhattan since then and it's been excited.So food was food and chef was really something in my mind.And because of the job that I do, having this influence coming from chefs and pastry chef and mixologists to see what's happening around the country can influence and inspire, you know, new ideas for fast food themes from like a ready to drink concepts or you know, a snack that a food in industry manufacturer would like to produce. So, so that influence is very important. So I wanted to build that network of source of information and, and then my passion for food as well.So that's how the podcast in 2018 was created. So flavors unknown. Yes, that's when I started because it was in agreement with, you know, with the company I work for. And I said, that's something.This is a personal project.So I started to do panel discussions for professionally and then said, you know what, the podcast is a great channel for, for this and let's make it happen.

Michael Herst00:15:39

So I mean I think that chapter taught you about the flavor, creativity and global food landscape in totality.I just watched a show, I like to watch a lot of other cooking shows and you know, I learning more a variety of cooking now I'm in a school currently where it's.There's some Michelin star chefs that are teaching and to be honest, and you have to be honest with yourself when you look at this, I don't have an interest in becoming like a chef, but I love to cook and I love to create and it gives me, you know, I started doing it when I was a cop, but once I got retired, you know, I was looking for new things to do. I did the podcast. I started the podcast when it was, when I was my whole medical journey.But when I got healthy again and when I got out of the wheelchair, after I walked my daughter down the aisle, my oldest daughter, still going to walk, my youngest daughter when she's ready, I embarked on my next love, which is food and the creativity. So I appreciate what, what you do.I watch a, I watched a show recently called Next Gen Chef which kind of brought a whole bunch of young people in to see what kind of influence or what kind of opportunity they had to be able to bring something to this generation, the next generation. And I find it really, really cool. So from your perspective, you did it from a personal perspective as well as taking your chemistry Background.What a unique twist to put that in there.

Emmanuel Laroche00:17:18

Yeah. And, you know, the.What you're just mentioning with that show, I think it's a great, in fact, illustration of what is the mindset of the chef and the young generation of chef today, which is about heritage and it's about. Of giving back to the newer generation. I have seen chefs that were more for my generation, were very protective of their craft.The chef from France, you know, came with that, I would say probably, you know, story, but the French here, the chefs here in the US I really admire their approach to mentorship and. And. And really to show the path to, like, to the new generation. So. So it's very. It's for me, an inspiration as well for.About leadership to, you know, any kind of business. So that's another aspect.I had some episodes, you know, in the podcast that were more around leadership and how any leader in any organization can find really, some great inspiration and model of how to coach a team and as well manage a team and then inspire the new generation and about mentorship.

Michael Herst00:18:44

All right, that's brilliant. I want to go back and explore some of those because I feel that I agree with you. You know, leadership, it starts with leadership.The leadership has to give somebody the opportunity as well as the inspiration and the motivation to be able to bring that to us. And I think that it's brilliant that those doors are opening up in such a way that they can understand there's more to life than Burger King.

Emmanuel Laroche00:19:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's funny that you are saying this, because that comment, I heard it so many times from my French family and French friends.Every time I go, I have the chance to go back to France at least once a year. I have all my brother, sisters, nephew, nieces over there.And when I had the podcast and started thinking about writing my first book, Conversations behind the Kitchen Door, I always had comments with. From their friends, say, oh, yeah, you were in US and you're talking about food and. But why? And say, what do you mean, why? I said, they.They only eat burgers and hot dogs and pizza over there. So I. There's no food culture. And I'm like, oh, wow. Okay.So I said, when you travel to the U.S. you are the one, the tourists that want to go to McDonald's and Burger King and look at all those fast food.If you would spend the same amount of time to identify, you know, food, places to go, the same way you identify landmarks and you know, where to what to visit and so on, you will discover that there's fantastic places, you know, in the US Restaurants, you know, food area, food trucks, food halls, where in fact there is such a group of individuals that are either from the US or that are coming from outside the US with their own, you know, traditions and heritage and are mixing, you know, the things from both worlds. And that will blow your mind. So I said, blow your mind. So I said, you know what, let me write about this.So that was in fact the inspiration and kind of the spark that said, oh no, people have to change their mindset, you know, about the food culture in the U.S. and there is, there is a lot of contradiction and there's a lot of opposition, but there is room for everyone. So which what I like.

Michael Herst00:21:09

Well, there is, there is.And, and I, I need, I need to, I need to clarify my position and a little bit as well, because I don't want the audience to feel that I only think that way. I, I, as an individual, I know that here, even in the Phoenix metro area, there are some restaurants here that are amazing.And I say metro, Finnish, we're talking about 6 million people. It's almost like New York. You've got Scottsdale and Peoria, Scottsdale, Glendale. It's all combined up. They're all butt up next to each other.But there's some amazing opportunities to enjoy food from any one of those communities that are all entailed within each other. And I think people sometimes are afraid to, to step outside the box.

Emmanuel Laroche00:21:59

Correct.

Michael Herst00:22:00

And afraid to try something a little new or time something a little bit deeper from that perspective. And they, they should, I think, and.

Emmanuel Laroche00:22:07

That'S something that people should do when they travel.And that, that's really, you know, the, maybe the link or you know, with the book about Madagascar, which is, you know, the idea is that, you know, you, you can, when you travel, you can decide to go to, you know, things that are, you know, the checklists, you know, that you want to, to visit or experience and so on or again, you can think that you are the travel. The important aspect is as well, the preparation phase of the travel.And for me, 50% of the excitement of the travel is the research that I do before I go somewhere.And, and the idea is that, you know, spend more time with, with people there, engage with people, because what you bring back from your travel is yes, of course, it's the picture that you can take and so on and then you will look at once or twice.But the most, I would say, and reaching experience will be the people that you will meet, the people that you spend time with and the people from the place that are going to share what their country is, you know, is about. And food for me is the vehicle, you know, to do that. It's a platform to communicate, exchange, learn.

Michael Herst00:23:25

So we share that. We share that, Emmanuel. We share that very much. So I, you know, when we travel, the first thing that I do, the same thing, I do research.And the research I do is necessarily I. Everywhere we go, we obviously want to check the history and the culture.And because walking into history is also very unique, you get to touch history, you get to walk where somebody's walked, you know, a couple thousand years ago in some cases.So for that, to me as well, a list of restaurants that I want to try is always on that research list, because I want to try this and I want to try that, and I want to get immersed in the culture, because when I come back, I want to have a gained in experience, not only with visiting a place or doing the tourist things, but embracing a new culture. Embracing the culture, whether it be food, dance, music, whatever it happens to be. I think it's a way for us to bring.It makes us grow as an individual. I think it makes us grow.

Emmanuel Laroche00:24:23

And I believe there's more people that are inclined to do this. If you see the success of the Airbnb experiences, for instance, so not Airbnb places that you rent, but there's another tab which is the experiences.So you can, you can book like someone organizing and it's not like a tourist guide.And it's, you know, it's some, someone like you and me that are passionate about a topic, you know, about wherever they live and they want to share that with people visiting. And it's usually not expensive.And you can really spend time with a small group and with that person and you can really learn more about like the true roots and experience and the food or whatever it is, you know, or a craft or, you know, so it's, It's. I like that.So if it's a place that I don't know, I usually sign up always for maybe just like the tour of the market, you know, and because I'm food connected, but. But then, you know, I have like someone local that is going to show me things that I will never experience if I try to do it on my own, you know.

Michael Herst00:25:31

Yeah, I agree. Yes, I agree that that's. We're gonna have to have another conversation. Let's talk about your first trip to Madagascar. You went in 2022.It wasn't meant really to change your life. It was part of a vanilla contest you created, is that correct?

Emmanuel Laroche00:25:46

Yeah, it was again, business related. And we launched like a vanilla extract, I think in 19.So it was before COVID And in order to do that, I work with a company called Star Chefs, which is a. A media marketing company with chefs and pastry chef and mixologists.And we launched a contest where in fact, we send those extracts to those individuals. And we had about like a little bit shorter than a hundred of those individuals that created like a unique recipe.And the, the top price was to, you know, of the contest, like the award was to. For me to bring like three winners to closer to vanilla. Because if.If people don't know, 80% of the worldwide vanilla production takes place in Madagascar. So, yeah.So I took Elizabeth Faulkner, who is a chef based in la, Michael Gulota, who is a chef based in New Orleans, and Shannon Tibet, who at that time was just finishing being the director of the bar of Death and company in New York. And here we go. We went to Madagascar. So 8 hours to Paris and 10 hours from Paris to Antanarivo, which is the capital of Madagascar.And if people don't know, it's 250 miles on the east coast of Africa. So that's how it started.

Michael Herst00:27:19

That is an amazing opportunity to be able to, I think, spend time with the vanilla farmers, beekeepers, cocoa producers, like, you know, and artisans.Because a lot, I think, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a very large portion of vanilla that we here use comes from Madagascar region, doesn't it?

Emmanuel Laroche00:27:41

Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.In fact, you know, something which was kind of a shock for us is that everywhere you go, usually to a country that has like a raw material like this food related, you are going to experience that food, you know, that ingredients in the country. Madagascar, we were expecting, especially the chefs were expecting everything. Vanilla experience, really. They will smell vanilla on the streets.They will have vanilla aroma in a spirit spa or whatever. There's none of that. So we were like, okay, so we visited the northeast parts of the country. The island, by the way, it's a big island.It's the largest islands on the planet. So it's like a little bit smaller than Texas, but not almost as big as Texas. And then the.So the vanilla grows into what we call the drag, the golden triangle on the northeast part of the island. And. And so we had that chance to have conversation with a farmer and we were like, okay, so how do you use vanilla?And they look at Us and if we had three heads and you said, we don't say, what do you mean? You don't said no, it's like currency for us. It's money. So 99% of the production of vanilla is exported.And a big part come obviously to, to the US and you know, as well used by company like us, ours.You know, we make extracts, we sell it to big companies that are making, you know, vanilla ice cream or, you know, in bakeries and you know, and so on and. But they said no, we don't. I mean, we try, you know, put like a bean also, you know, in dessert and sauces.But you know, for them it's, it's, it's what's really take their kids to school, you know, it's what's really bringing their income, you know, for some time a crop that is negotiated one day a year is going to last in term of income to the entire, for the entire year, you know, for, for a family. So I have to say that, you know, obviously I knew about Madagascar since I'm a kid because Madagascar used to be a French colony until 1960, 60s.So it was still part of the, of the, the Geographic school book, you know, when I, I was at school. So I've seen the lemurs, I've seen the baobab trees, you know, I've seen, you know, all this fauna and flora that was unique to, to the island.I talk about Madagascar when I worked, you know, and sell, sold vanilla extracts, you know, But I, I never embraced the importance of the human dimension behind the production of a food like this, which is iconic for us, you know, and it's part of our heritage in the kitchen, you know, it's part of like cooking together as a family. It's like a nostalgic flavors. You know, vanilla smell is, is something very important for us in the Western, you know, culture. So.But all of that exists because you have people on in Madagascar that are taking the time to pollinate the flower by hand. People maybe don't realize, but. So I have to do a parenthesis. But vanilla comes originally from Mexico.There in Mexico, there's a little insect that pollinates the orchid. You know, vanilla is an orchid that grows on the vine.When the French took it, you know, to other parts of the world to try to plant it in different places like the Comora island next to, you know, to Madagascar in Indonesia and so on, they took the insects with them, but the insect never survived. So then, then they planted the vine and nothing happened. They were like where's the vanilla?And then the legend said that there is a slave, I think in the Comor Islands that for some reason had a, you know, a bad temper moment and so on, and for some reason crashed like the, you know, the flower and it's artificially pollinated y the flower. And then after that moment, you know, there's been their first production of vanilla. So they decided to say, okay, what happened?And they relieved the moment. And then since then, in fact the story, again, not sure it's a legend, you know, it's a story there.But in fact, every morning when the flower opens on the vanilla beans, the women, because you need to have little fingers, go and pollinate by hand, flour after flour, one at a time to produce the beans. So already that step is, you know, a lot of work.And then after that there is the, the collecting of the beans, there's a curating of the beans, there is the sorting of the beans.They said to me that there's about like 40 hands of people that are in fact touching one bean of vanilla between it's, I say, harvested until it's like in your hand, in your kitchen. So it's, it's a big craft. And for me that was that discovery.You know, I knew about the, the chemistry, I knew about all the extraction aspect of vanilla, how to use it, you know, after in the kitchen. I never really embraced the craft of the production of the vanilla beans before I came to the island.And I have to say that it changed me coming back that, you know, I look at a vanilla bean in my kitchen completely differently than before the trip. Before it was, oh, one is dry, you know, I don't care, I throw it in the garbage. Now it's like I have to pay attention.I have to wrap it into plastic, put it into like a tin, you know, can, because it has to stay moist, obviously to, to have to bring the, you know, the flavor in whatever you are making.

Michael Herst00:34:09

Well, I mean, I think this, what an amazing opportunity to learn tradition, craftsmanship and resilience of these people. Because I never knew that. I had no idea whatsoever that this was how it was happening.We take that for granted, I think as the normal consumer, the individual that walks into the grocery store and buys a thing of vanilla, a vanilla extract, whatever the case may be. You just kind of take it for granted. True, Absolutely.

Emmanuel Laroche00:34:35

And what is true for vanilla, it's true for everything else. And I think that's, you know, that's kind of like the, the lessons, you know, that I wanted or something.To share as, you know, what is the one takeaway at the end of the book is, you know, exactly what you mentioned.So when you go into your shopping trip and then you are buying, you know, different ingredients, just be curious, you know, try to think about where it's coming from. So it's good for the sustainability story, knowing the origin, how it's been produced and so on.But think about, like, the human dimension, you know, behind it and it's. And don't take it for granted.

Michael Herst00:35:13

That's amazing. I have a new look. When I pick up my vanilla, I will have a new appreciation of how that was made and where it came from.I can't wait to share that with my wife and my kids, actually, and my sister, because my sister cooks.

Emmanuel Laroche00:35:25

Yeah. And that's pink pepper corn is another one, you know, which I discovered when, you know, I was there.I knew a little bit of pink peppercorn because I use it now and then. And one of the chef, like Michael Yuleta from New Orleans, like, fell in love with it. I said, oh, my gosh.I mean, that profile of the pink peppercorn, you know, is unique. So I learned when I was there that in fact, Madagascar is the second world producer of pink peppercorn after Brazil.Brazil is number one, Madagascar is a number two. So you have a good chance that a part of the pink peppercorn that you are consuming comes from Madagascar.And in my last trip, so we are talking about my first, so I went in first time in 22, second time the year after, in 23. I went back the third time, this last year in 25, in May.And the person that became my friend and there a local that really guided me through the island, introduced me to the main producer of pink peppercorn. And it's in the southeast of the island. So my third trip was really about the south part of the island.And I went there and it's where 80% of the production of pink peppercorn from the island is coming from. And again, it was the. The heart of the heart, the peak of the harvest.So had the chance to go, you know, where all the trees are and the orchard and seen the women collecting, you know, those part of the branches where the little corns, you know, are growing. And then I have pictures on the book and then.And they are weeping those branches on the tarp and then collecting those little pinkish reddish, you know, corn that are going to end up, you know, in someone's kitchen around the planet. So that was. That was really Unique, you know, from.

Michael Herst00:37:14

A human perspective, like you said earlier. I think that nobody thinks about that. Somebody does it by hand. That's hard work.It is to be out there with your hands doing that kind of work on a consistent everyday basis. Like, wow, you know the book. I know the book. You got the first copy before we started this. You pointed the copy to me.

Emmanuel Laroche00:37:35

Yeah, it is.

Michael Herst00:37:35

So I haven't had a chance to.

Emmanuel Laroche00:37:36

Like, I'm excited because I received it two days ago. So that's why.

Michael Herst00:37:41

Yeah, you could. You have the tangible. Here it is. It's in my hand. Yeah, I can't wait to check it out. Actually. It kind of blends.I think I mentioned my, in my intro, the kind of a travelogue of your travels to there. The anthropology aspect of it, which we just talked about and of course culinary storytelling.Because realistically you're telling stories from what we've just learned and what I've just learned. You're telling stories that I never knew.And even in the stuff that I have learned from cooking, I've taken some French cooking classes, I've taken Italian cooking classes, I've taken Asian cooking classes.Glasses any, you know, you, you never hear the story behind some of the ingredients that are within what you eat and what you're going to mix together. So what an opportunity for us to be able to learn from a global perspective how, how it all fits together.

Emmanuel Laroche00:38:35

Yeah. And, and that's really what, you know, when I went there the first time, I had absolutely no idea that I will make that trip.You know, my second book, I knew that I said I need to find like an idea, you know, whatever comes, you know, an opportunity.And then when I did my first trip that was really business orientated, I went there for vanilla, but I stayed there for everything else that I discovered and I came back for the people behind them.So I discovered cocoa, I discovered pink peppercorn, I discovered cloves, I discovered endemic white black pepper that are existing only on that island, nowhere else in the world. I discovered caviar, which blew my mind. I had no idea that there's 11 tons of caviar that are produced. The first caviar of the Indian Ocean.And, and you know, and then as well, when I was focusing on those ingredients for food, I discovered that there's other things that are growing in symbiosis, you know, for food that are used in perfumery. So there is vetiver, there is patchouli, there is ylang, yilong, ylang, ylang.For the little story is the main component of Chanel number five perfume. So I'm like, okay, I need to write like a chapter on this. So I, I decided to create the book or structure the book as almost like a tasting menu.So you have one chapter dedicated to an ingredient. So one on vanilla, one on cocoa, one on spices and so on. One on honey.And then talking about bringing the travelog aspect that you talked about because I wanted the people reading that to experience the same way I experience it. So joining me in my adventure, and believe me, it's an adventure because the road condition is not that good.There's some part of the island that it took me 30 hours, 30 hours non stop, you know, driving just for stop for bio breaks and food and that's it. No sleeping. And so that was an adventure.I wanted the people to experience it because some people may go there, but a lot of people will not go there. So, so, you know, that's good to talk about the product, but let's do the context of where that product grows or being raised.And then the other part is the human dimension. So I wanted to celebrate the people that are behind those products.And I picked and I asked my friend to help me there to select companies that are, or entrepreneurs or farmers that are giving back to the local communities. That was something very, very important to me. Why?Because, probably because my French background and this story of colonialism with Madagascar, a lot of people went on this island to exploit the raw materials coming from the soil. There's a lot of, you know, stones and, you know, and great things over there. And it's a cheap workforce. So a lot of people went there for that.I didn't want to do this. I wanted really to say give me like, introduce me to people that, you know, I will be proud to feature in the book.So I want the people, if people are interested to read that story, I want to make sure that they understand that. Yes, at the end of the book I put like a page which is just kind of a short introduction of the companies that I mentioned in the book.For me it's not a marketing exercise. I've seen some people telling me, oh, but you know, you are doing the pitch of those companies.No, no, I just want to share what I've experienced related to those companies that are giving back to the local communities.But then I said, if you as a reader want to learn more about them, here's what they are and here's like the address of their website and this is on your own, you can explore it. So that's the reason of those pages, you know, at the end, no one, like, gave me any money to talk about their, you know, about their company.My second trip, I had the chance to interview 18 people in maybe 14 days. And.And just to give you an example, with a caviar, for instance, which you could say caviar, it's a luxury good and it's one of the poorest place on earth. But the idea is that they did it that way because 80% of the people that work in the sturgeon farms are from Madagascar.They're people that they were put into, like, the whole education system and they graduated, you know, from, like, the type of work that were needed, you know, and then they.I interview those individuals, you know, the divers that take care of the sturgeon, the person who is in charge of the production sites, all our locals.And they are so proud of what they can do, you know, working in this company and the fact that they are producing the first caviar from the Indian Ocean. So that. That's what I wanted to, you know, to celebrate in. In the book.

Michael Herst00:44:08

Well, I think that, you know, from what. What I. Here's what I get out of this. You kind of captured the soul of Madagascar, but not just the ingredients, but the people.And it allows us to have an understanding that, again, it goes back to. Sometimes we take advantage. Look, this world, we both know this world's very active.You know, people, especially nowadays, the older we get, the more we like to slow down from an older perspective. But the world is moving at a fast pace. They don't take the time to think about these things.And again, what amazing opportunity to really understand you.Capturing the soul of Madagascar and the people within it and how it all works together, I think brings to me more value to what I. I'm going to put on my plate.

Emmanuel Laroche00:44:57

Yeah, sure, absolutely. And that could be the, you know, the more value.You understand that as well, that what you are doing is contributing to the livelihood on those individuals.Because if we want to continue to enjoy those fantastic product wherever they are coming, we need to, one way of another, support, you know, the human aspect behind those products. So.So it's, you know, I think it's important to understand the traceability, you know, what's the story behind these ingredients, because we know we are all like humans, and sometime we take shortcuts. And, you know, sometime it's not the quality ingredients, sometime we look at the cost, which is definitely very important.But I would rather spend a little bit more money if I Know, it's going to support directly the people that are making that quality ingredients. I think we owe them that because we are enjoying the product on the other side of the planet.And if we want to have that heritage and share that product with our kids and our grandkids and, you know, you want to still cook in your kitchen and share maybe that vanilla cake, you know, that you baked in your oven and you have your grandkids that are enjoying this with you, it's because some other people are making this possible on Madagascar.

Michael Herst00:46:41

But, you know, food is about connecting. And, you know, as we usually, we think of connecting as sitting across the table from our family and our friends, and food's about sharing.And this is kind of, I think, a wider expanse in those aspects.We are connecting with those people that are making it by understanding where it came from gives us a greater appreciation of what we're eating and how it was made informed. That brings us closer to that culture. We as human beings can embrace it. I love it. I love it.

Emmanuel Laroche00:47:17

I love it. Yeah, a good summary. Absolutely.

Michael Herst00:47:21

You've said that your journey forced you to kind of rethink identity and challenge your comfort zones. What did Madagascar reveal about, like, who you are and who you are becoming? You kind of redefined yourself, right?

Emmanuel Laroche00:47:35

Yeah, it's. You have to.And in fact, it's, you know, people said that to me before I took my first trip and they are going, they said to me, it's either you're going to hate it or you're going to fell in love with it. And, and you know, you will have to, you know, you will fall in love with the people as well.And, and I'm like, okay, you know, I, I went there with no preconceived notion. And, and there's some people I can understand because it's, it's a poor country.So in certain places, you know, you could be, you know, you, you have, you really witness, you know, some of the things that you see, you know, online or on TV sometime. You. It's comparable to things that maybe you see from India or certain part of India and, and the.Because, you know, it's, it's low income and so, you know, you need to adjust. And, and that contrast of, you know, that population being very poor and, and then you coming there as a visitor and I, I try not to judge.I tried to stay almost like, like witness, you know, when I was ex, you know, experiencing. And, but if you pass that, because who am I, you know, I'm not going to change that dynamic and don't have the power. But I can. I wanted to.When I went there, you know, and I came back and I said, okay, I think I have a story for the second book. I didn't want to take the angle of things that people really read about Madagascar.They read about it because there's been a cyclone which is the equivalent of hurricanes, you know, in. In the Indian Ocean. And the cyclone has destroyed. Extracted, like, destroyed. Sorry, like, one of the.Maybe half of the production of whatever, or there's been famine or there is the dried, you know, time of the year in the south, or there's corruption and, you know, in the political governments. That's most of the time, this is the only thing that you hear about Madagascar, or the only thing that you hear is the movie.Because, you know, people talk to me about the. Oh, Madagascar, the movie. I'm like, yeah, it's an island. It's a country, really. I'm like, yeah, it is. So. So.But the idea was, like, I wanted to take, like, a different angle and say, let me celebrate ingredients that are there that end up.Because my angle is food and that end up into, you know, the kitchen of people or chefs around the planet, and no one knows that it's coming from that island. So I wanted to really. To put the spotlight, you know, on that aspect.So I talk in the book about the rest and the context and the fact that, yes, there is deforestation, and we have to be mindful of this because deforestation has an impact on, you know, all those ingredients and. And so on. Of the livelihood, on. On the people. People are contributing to it. So, you know, how can we do things differently?Through installing, like, hives, beehives, and producing honey into planting cocoa trees. Because cocoa trees needs shade and means that you have to plant other trees on top of them and have a canopy.So then insects, sorry, insects and mammals and like, lemurs are coming back and so on. So there's solutions. So I wanted to bring a little bit of optimism and.And not see the island from the angle of the negative aspect, because unfortunately, this is most of the time the way how the island is pictured in the media.

Michael Herst00:51:20

Well, and that's. That is unfortunate. There's a key word that you said there. I think that, you know, as a police officer, I. I went into locations that the.You see people at their worst, you see the best people at their worst. And you see poor. I mean, like, poor living under the bridge poor, living in a cave poor.And you deal with this and you it gives you a perspective of compassion and humanity and understand that, yes, they might be homeless, yes, they might be poor, but they're people, they're human beings, and they have families and they're somebody's daughter, son, husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, child, grandparent. You know, they belong to somebody. So I. I appreciate the fact that you took that approach. I think that it.It brings around, I guess, full circle to have an understanding that what you put on your plate, which put in your mouth, what nourishes you, what you enjoy, comes from somebody having to work that.

Emmanuel Laroche00:52:20

Sure. You know, the same way. The same way the farmers, you know, in a peasant, you know, before whatever, you know, do that. And I think it's important.And what I talk in the first book, Conversations behind the Kitchen Door, is cook with the seasons, because the seasons is going to bring you what's best at the peak, you know, of maturity of whatever fruits, vegetables, and then go to a farmer's market, engage with the farmers. They love it. They want to talk to you about that. You know, what they do. And I think this is very important. So for me, it's the same.It's the same approach. You know, it doesn't matter if it's here in the US in your backyard.You know, think about, I live in New Jersey, and when I arrive, I started to explore, and I said, okay, oh, there's a farm here. Great.You know, let's let me go there and I discover different places, and so do that in whatever state that, you know, you live in and stay the same principle applied to what I've done and looked at in Madagascar.

Michael Herst00:53:27

Well, thank you for doing that. I appreciate that.From a human perspective, from us being, again, having said, understanding, some compassion, some understanding, some appreciation for what has come on. You mentioned. And we just talked about it.We haven't talked much about it, but your first book, Conversations behind the kitchen door, featured 50American chefs and became a trusted researcher in the culinary world. How did that experience prepare you or not prepare you for writing A Taste in Madagascar?

Emmanuel Laroche00:54:03

Good question. I think that the first one was really the. Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt, but. Yeah, just my son is texting me, and I'm like, I need to answer.

Michael Herst00:54:17

That's okay.

Emmanuel Laroche00:54:18

Sorry about that. And I'm finishing this. Okay. And then the. So the first book was really me jumping into this idea, are you going to be.Or am I going to be good enough to tell a story or to write a story and a story that someone else wants to read? Read which, you know, I think happened because then I was published. So, so that was at least a good step.And then I think the first one, like really show me the process of writing because I had, you know, the opportunity because of my day job to do a lot, to write a lot of articles for magazines and in, you know, the, the company magazines or the food magazines and so on. So, um, but writing a book is really different and, and so, but I, I understood, you know, what worked for me.So a lot of people are going to say you have to write every day. This is a process. Of course you become better at it when you're writing every day.It didn't work for me because I, I still have my work of vice president of marketing for, you know, the company. So it takes a lot of time, I travel a lot. Uh, it's difficult for me at the end of my day job to switch to creative writing.Uh, so I have seen that what worked the best for me is to take like long weekend, so leave on the Thursday night and drive, you know, somewhere. Rent an Airbnb. It doesn't have to be expensive, you know, it's not about cost there. And then drive back on the Monday. Be quiet. I'm an early bird.So I wake up at 5am So I love to ride five from five to 11.So I have, I put that process in place which I call it like the three six, which is like three days, six hour writing and then I have another three after which usually at the end of the day I revise when I'm writing. So maybe the process is longer. It took me 22 months, I think for both manuscripts, the book number one and book number two. But, but it works.So, and then at the same time I go somewhere so I bring like the exploration of the food.So I, I go a place that I never been before and then after I've written my six hours then you know, I go for lunch, I go to a nice restaurant, I go to a brewery, I have a nice coffee cup, you know, and, and so on. So there, there is that element as well, you know, in my process, process.So I think that part of the process helped me for the second one because I knew what worked for me. I didn't have to test and try and test things.And then the other piece as well is, I think the podcast and the first book helped me to know what I needed to put together in place with me when I traveled to the island.Because that was the major difference is for the book number one, I am in the U.S. i can engage with people in the U.S. madagascar is a little far, so you have to make sure that you have everything there with you. And I had my process again. So I had my little recorder with two mics for my interviews.I had my phone for pictures because I love to put together when I come back, kind of like mood board per chapter. So I do a collage of some of the pictures to put me into the context for writing. And then I have my notebook.Because it is important when you think of writing a book, is that you capture the emotion of the moment. So when you are driving those 30 hours in that car, you know, the notebook with a pencil is the best way to take notes of what is your.What you are experiencing.The fact that, you know, there's nine hours in a dirt road where you might be stopped by a band of bandits that wants to capture the cows from a different village.At the my attack your car, you know, and you see the nervousness of your driver and you are, you know, asking questions the same way you ask question when you were a police officer and say, what's going on? Tell me. And he's not answering you.Your emotion here needs to be captured on that notebook because you will completely forget about the emotion in the moment. And that is very important is when I'm back here on my desk, when we are recording this episode here, I have to go.I can go back to my notes and I relieve that emotion so I can bring that emotion into the page when I'm writing. So I hope it answered your questions.

Michael Herst00:59:22

You did answer brilliantly, actually.

Emmanuel Laroche00:59:25

That's the way that, you know. So that's the process.

Michael Herst00:59:29

Well, it's a great writing process. I think that when you bring something from the.That perspective, it's more personal and it gives us as a reader or the person that is trying to experience that journey with you. That's the opportunity for us to do that. So, yeah, I think it's a great. I think it's a great. My father was a writer and I.

Emmanuel Laroche00:59:46

Think that the people, if they have this desire to write, they should do it. Because a lot of people think about, like, oh, how do you write? You know, people think that I'm.One day I decide to open a page and I'm going to say, like, once upon a time. It doesn't work like that at all. It's really, you need to structure the book. And, and. And people, A lot of people are talking about like the.The fact that, you know, you can have a block, you know, of the writer Block. You hear that all the time.If you approach it in a way that you know how your book is structured and then you know which story is going to be part of which chapter. It doesn't matter, like, the morning that you want to write or the afternoon or the evening you want to write.Just write about, like, whatever comes to your mind. It doesn't have to be in order. You feel you. You will work on the order later. So there's no, there's no write a block. There is.There is like, what do you want to. What story do you want to tell, you know, at that moment?

Michael Herst01:00:51

That's brilliant. Actually, I. Well, when we rap, I always ask this one more thing, right. That you can give wisdom to. So. But you.I think you almost did it, but I'm going to ask you anyway. Sure, go for it. Let's talk about how somebody can find your amazing book and your podcast and your upcoming releases.

Emmanuel Laroche01:01:14

Yeah. Thank you for doing this. I love this slide. Michael, congratulations. This is a fantastic tool for your guests.So, yeah, they can, they can find all this information. It's easy. It's the title of the book. It's a taste of madagascar.com.the other way, if you want to hear more about the podcast is flavorsunknown.com and with those two website address, you find all the information.

Michael Herst01:01:46

That's great. I'll make sure there's links in the show notes so that everybody can just click and find it.And obviously they can connect with you with your Instagram. It's also on screen right below you. You started to say something before I jumped you into that call to action.

Emmanuel Laroche01:02:03

No, I was just mentioning the idea that if you have that passion and the desire for writing, I think you should do it. You know, people should do it.And you know, there's, there's enough tools now online to, to guide you for non fiction if you want to write, you know, a novel or, sorry, non fiction if you want to write something like I did, you know, with my book Conversations behind the Kitchen Door. A Taste of Madagascar. Something that you want to share your experience. Experience, how to approach or, or, you know, if you want to write fiction.So like, you know, a novel, there's, there's plenty of things that are available. I, I joined like a writer's group, you know, for, for the, the first book just to learn like, you know, the abc.Because it, it's an industry on its own and it has their rules, it has their important individuals that are part of, of that industry that you need to know and you need to know their, their, their, their roles, you know, like an agent or like a publicist or like a publisher. You know, all of that have some importance.So that's what I wanted to say is that if you have that desire, if this is something that you feel are like, is in you, don't hesitate.

Michael Herst01:03:27

Don'T hesitate to do it. I, I agree with you. And you know, you see, you're very, very lucky. I think you're lucky because you get to combine your travel, right.So you get to experience the location, the culture, the opportunity, you get to eat. Different culture, different opportunity. And you get to meet those people.You get to understand where they come from and how they got where they're at and what they do in life and do it for us. So your perspective of writing was able to combine all of that together, which I think is very, very cool.

Emmanuel Laroche01:04:02

It is. I feel fortunate every morning I wake up. Absolutely.

Michael Herst01:04:07

Well, sure. Well, Emmanuel, thank you very much for being part of this journey.I appreciate you sharing your wisdom, your journey with us, your experience with us. I believe that you bring your passion to this culinary world and this cultural world that we all can share.I'm happy that we've had this conversation. I'm ecstatic that you reached out to me and I hope we can have another conversation down the road.

Emmanuel Laroche01:04:31

Sure.

Michael Herst01:04:32

But this is one more thing before you go. So I know you just gave us some words of wisdom. Do you have any more words of wisdom? Anybody wanting to embark on their own journey?

Emmanuel Laroche01:04:43

So first of all, before I say that, I want to make sure that I say thank you. Thank you, Michael, for, for inviting me for replying to, you know, the reach out. So I really appreciate it.I think that's, you know, what I said to my, my children is the world of wisdom. They probably, they say too many dads. But the. I think it's, you know, stay curious. I think this is important.Stay curious with everything that you had that you do, because the world is rich.And the positive aspect comes from our own way of appreciating things, engaging with others, the way how we behave and the world will give it back to you.So if you stay curious about things, about obviously why I'm going to say food first, because I like to experiment new things, but as well, stick your ears with people and you know, it's, it will be like very enriching experience. So that's what I would say.

Michael Herst01:05:54

Brilliant, brilliant words of wisdom. You gave us two brilliant words of wisdom. The one we just spoke and that one there. So I appreciate that.Again, thank you very much for being on the show. I appreciate you.I'll make sure that everything's in the show notes so that they can and click it, click a link and get to them and get to your website and find your books and your podcast and everything else involved. So, Emmanuel, thank you, sir. I appreciate you very much. Thank you for joining us on this journey.

Emmanuel Laroche01:06:21

Michael, thank you. And thank you what you have done as well for everyone when you were in the force.

Michael Herst01:06:27

I'm grateful. Today we learned that reinvention doesn't always come from crisis.Sometimes it comes from curiosity, from listening, from stepping into a place that asks you to slow down, pay attention, and see the world and yourself differently. Madagascar did that for Emmanuel and through his work, it now does that for us. And it reminds us that every journey has a flavor.Some are familiar, some are unexpected. Some, like Madagascar, stay with you long after you return home. We also learned that it's never too late to rediscover your purpose.Never too late to follow a spark, never too late to write a new chapter of your own life. Because sometimes the most important journeys begin when we think our story's already written.The taste of Madagascar is out now, so be sure to get your copy today. So that's a wrap for today's episode. I hope you found inspiration, motivation, and a new perspective to take with you.If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to like, subscribe and follow us and stay connected. You can find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform and you can head over to YouTube and catch the full video version.So until next time, I'm Michael Hurst and this is one more thing before you go.

Emmanuel Laroche01:07:44

Thanks for listening to this episode of one more thing before you go. Check out our website at before you go podcast.You can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.