Beyond the Battlefield: Reclaiming Identity and Purpose After Service

Hey, one more thing before you go. What happens when the mission ends but the battle doesn't? What do you do when the world you trained for, the world that shaped you, is suddenly gone?And how do you find your way back to yourself? We understand, especially after war trauma and the silence that follows.So we're going to answer these questions and more when we have a conversation with a special missions aviator and author of a book that documented how he did it and how you can, too. I'm your host, Michael Hirsch. Welcome to One more thing before you go. Today we're stepping into a story that is raw, courageous, and deeply human.My guest, Anthony Dyer, was born under a full moon in 1982 in Silva, North Carolina, a rugged Appalachian town where resilience isn't just a trait, it's a way of life. That spirit carried him into the US Air Force in 2000 and eventually into the elite world of special operations aviation.As a special missions aviator, Anthony flew aboard the AC130H Spectra gunship and the HH60G Pave Hawk helicopter, executing high risk missions in some of those world's most volatile war zones.Over more than a decade, he earned multiple honors, including the 2018 Jolly Green Rescue Mission of the Year in recognition from the Secretary of the Air Force, Barbara Barrett, in 2020. But when the uniform came off, the real battle began.His debut memoir, Moonchild, is a raw, unfiltered account of war trauma and addiction and the long road to recovery.Today, Anthony lives in New Mexico, where he writes, speaks, and advocates for mental health while he's building a life with his wife and, and his daughter. Welcome to the show, Anthony.

Hey, thanks for having me, Michael. It's honored to be here.

Your life has taken a. It's been an amazing journey with your life, and I think, you know, your, your ups, your downs, your wins, your losses.I think everything in life throws at us, we, we have a, a choice to either, you know, adapt and overcome, or we have a choice to sit back and, and wallow in it. You seem to have taken that to the adapt and overcome. And, and I sincerely appreciate that you're being here.

Yeah, I appreciate you having me. And that's, I like how you, you know, you put it that way.And actually a point in my life where I talked to a pastor and when I had some things going on, and he told me, you know, it's like life circumstances can make you bitter or better. You know, the choice is yours, and I chose better by the grace of God. So thank you.

Always a choice Always a choice. We have that choice. Well, today I'd like to talk about courage and identity and kind of a fight to come home.I said earlier that my audience knows that, you know, I've got a long history of military in the family, so, you know, I've, I'm experienced with those coming home with, with trauma and with the memories and with the, you know, post traumatic stress syndrome and everything that's associated with it. And I think that I appreciate what you bring to this conversation. So I think we can explore two things, if you don't mind.One, what happens to a warrior where the mission ends but the wounds remained? And then how do we rebuild identity and purpose and hope after trauma and addiction?

Yeah, for sure. You know, I think the, you know, when, when the mission ends, right?And the loss of identity, those two questions are really the, you know, you get the, the same answer to, to how to, to get better at it. But, you know, I realized when I was filling out my DD214, you know, this basically my. To pass my 20th year in the Air Force.And you're in this personnel type office, right. And, you know, this blanket of DD214, right.And you walk out this office and you look back and there's no, no door handle, no door handle on the other, the door. Right. So you can, you can walk out, but you can't get back in. Right.And that was sort of a symbolic moment in my life about like, you know, my why and, you know, my, my reason for, for being, you know, and especially on the, the gunship, you know, your, your mission is to make sure those, those, the super ninjas get home to your family. And when that, when that's gone, that's a, That's a hard thing to, hard thing to swallow.

It is, it is. So I can relate to that from my own experience as well. My identity was a police officer. I was a. And a sergeant and leading a team.And when I left and had to walk out of my retirement hearing to determine whether or not my injury was sufficient enough to retire me, it was hard. It was hard. You know, my wife and I went out to the car and I broke down in the car.It was a journey because that's who I was, who I, who I had become, and, you know, a soldier just like you and cops and firefighters. It's not just an identity, it's who we are. Whether, you know, if you're a warrior, that's just who you are. I'd like to start at the beginning.You were born in Silva, North Carolina. A place defied by, by rugged landscapes and culture of resilience.How did growing up in the Appalachian Mountains shape your sense of identity and toughness and adventure?

Yeah, so definitely for the adventure part, you know, the outdoors scene there, you know, I tell people if I wanted to go fishing, for example, like, I would, I would walk half a mile down this, this mountain road to the, the beautiful Tassi river there.And as far as the, their resilience and like the, I guess the theme of perseverance, you know, you know, in, in the mountains yourself, you had this, the Scottish tartan people and you know, a lot of resilience with that, you know, with that side of things. And then also down the road you have the Easter band of Cherokee Nation.And I remember, you know, part of being, being positive, right, is part of being resilience. It's almost, almost tactical.And I tell people the two wolves theory, I sort of learned, like growing up from those guys was like, you know, you have two wolves, right?And, you know, you have a wolf that gives you good, positive, you know, motivation, and then you have one that, that's negative and may get you to do some, some bad things, right? So I think the, the one that wins is the one you feed the most.And sort of that was taught to me at a very young age and I took that, you know, as far as the roots part of my journey and eventually got my wings. So.

Well, you, you joined the air force.

At 18.

That obviously young age that kind of eventually set your, your sights on special operations, aviation, which I think is, I find that fascinating in itself to be able to do what you do within that perspective. What drew you to that world? Was it danger? The precision, responsibility? What, what kind of drew you to that?

So when I originally joined the Air force, I was 17 and I was my senior in high school, and I, I was going nowhere with my life, right? And my dad gives me the typical dad talk. You know, there's old man, it's time to get a job, go to college or get out.And long story short, I talked to some Navy recruiters about being on a boat for six months. I didn't want to do that in the Army. And I was like, you know what?I'm going to talk to dad about the, you know, quality of life of the Air Force is what he was getting at. You know, good shot halls and all that stuff.But eventually, you know, signed that contract and July 18, I was on my first fixed swing flight to San Antonio, Texas. Yeah, and that's where my journey began. And I didn't get into flying until about halfway through my career mark there, my ten year mark, right.And, and basically what it was was I was home on leave with some friends at a pizza, pizza parlor and I looked back and the same main street windy road that has separated two sides of my town for all those years. I look out and I see the same cracks in the road.And I just remember thinking like, man, like you know, I've sort of been sitting on the sideline with the war on terror and I wanted to get in the fight in the, the highest capacity I could. And I was like, I don't leave cracks, you know, I'll leave craters and, and leave a, leave a footprint, you know.And I get older, my great grandkids ask what I did.The way I could say that I get to fly on the fly and fight beside the best men and women in the world in the 16th Special Operations Squadron on the AC130 gunship.

Well, I appreciate your service because that takes a unique individual especially to go up in the air like that leaves you vulnerable as well as obviously you're protecting and serving and it leaves you vulnerable to the same type of thing. Before we get kind of deep into it, can you take us into the, into the cockpit? What did it feel like to fly that first mission?

Yeah, you had a problem. So I'll take it back to what a special missions aviators is on the, specifically the AC130 gunship.So what the Air Force did was they combined the aerial gunner career field, which I was originally the aerial gunner AFSC and then with the load master and flight engineer. So you have the Swiss army knife in the sky if you think about it that way.And my first mission, I can get into it there was 2011 in Bagram and we had been doing basically just some ISR type stuff on another operation, nothing for weeks essentially. And we landed from that op and we had to reload the, the 105 rounds from the tweak rounds.And that's what I mean by tweak is like basically lining her sights and you have to spend a few rounds to do that like any weapon, right. And I remember we got to northeastern Afghanistan and we alert launched for that part of that.And you know, hour and a half, two hours later, you know, I'm looking down in this valley and I'm basically, I see these two bright flashes and, and what it was, was there was a, you know, three Taliban members with explicit pack shooting, the Green Beret team and you know, and I remember basically after we shot about 64 rounds, you know, and you know, basically terminate them right there. And what it was, was the guys got to go home to their family, you know, and that's, that's the part where it said.And it's like, man, I got to do more for my country and my, my brother in arms than. And I don't have two or fighting I'd done my whole life.And that was my wild is just chasing that, that relevance, that, that sense of purpose, you know, and providing that close air support for those guys.

Yeah, that's, you know, it's amazing. My step, not my step, my father, my father in law in Vietnam, he was in the Air Force and served on a C130 himself. It wasn't the same type as yours.He did mostly missions where they dropped supplies and they dropped, you know, but he worked the tail where they did that. And some of his stories are crazy wild about they being shot at and you know, bullets hitting and going through, standing on the end where he was.I mean that's something that's got to stick with you in that regard. But being able to take care of your brothers in arms on the ground, brothers and sisters in arms, that's just profound.I mean that's kind of like part of this, part of your story that most people don't get to see, you know, behind the scenes stuff and what it feels like to be able to do that. How, how, how many missions did you fly, may I ask?

It was, it was right about 200 missions when I combined the, the missions between the H model gunship, the Whiskey Gunship, and then the, the Paveh helicopter. And most of those being being our gun.

So getting over chest cold. Forgive me, I'm sorry. Just suck it.

I'm sorry.

Mark that. Sorry, bud.

Are you good, brother?

So some of you, can you share some of the, some of the details of some of the most dangerous missions or operations that, that you're going to do? Like, let's talk about the 2018 Jolly Green Rescue mission of the year. What does that entail and how did that come about?

Yeah, so at that point in my career, I'd switched to the HH60G Pave Hawk helicopter and the 41st Rescue Squadron, the mighty Jolly Greens. And Jolly Greens.It also goes back to the heritage there to Vietnam where, you know, the rescue helicopters would land in these, these rice pity fields and rice paddy fields. Excuse me. And by the time they had, you know, extracted and got a, you Know, someone behind me lines out.It left two footprints on these rice paddies and that's where the whole green feet comes from in that community. But yeah, I'd switched to that airframe. There was basically a manning shortage in the. The rotary wing community at that point.And I'd volunteered to that for that.And the whole model behind that that service is these things we do that others may live and it's a job I could say now that, you know, you definitely want to never want to have to do. It could be somebody's worst day or even last day and. And I can get into the cast of back there. June 8th of 2018 in East Africa.And what it was was we were seven, you know, seven days in or six, six out of seven days into this operation we were standing 24 seven, you know, for Cassavac.And basically what it was was there was about 40 special operators and then some partner nation forces that went on this, this ground conveya to do something. And about day six, you know, out of the operation, everything's going to normal, everything's in the plan as about 3pm is over there.And I went to the talk and the intel lieutenant I was like hey man, I was like, you know, is everything going good? And she's like yeah, everything looks fine man, all is well. And so I was going to take a tactical nap, right?And I basically one of those things you sleep when you can sleep, eat when you can eat type scenarios. And I was in this.I went back to my tent and I was on the top bunk and then as soon as I laid down my radio beside me said attention on that, you know, scramble, scramble, scramble. And I just remember like sprinting a quarter mile to the helicopter which seemed like the.Not a big cardio guys, like the longest cardio in my life it felt like at the time.But you know, I get there and I get my gear on and we take off within three, I think it's like three and a half minutes we, we were in the air and the first minute of the flight. So we're about you know, 15, 20ft off the ground at that point.And the left gunner had a runaway gun and what it was was a orange tear notch on the gal 1850 cal. I had pulled the flare pin simultaneously because we're fencing in, getting there, getting ready to go behind enemy lines, right and all that.And basically when I pulled that pin out it. There was water in the panel that shorted out our flares which flares protect us against the.The heat seeking Surface to air missiles and it jettisoned all of our flares and I could literally feel the heat, you know, like, you know, almost like to my face almost. And, and also the communications with the, the J track, the Jack and the ground force commander were broken at best.And I remember there's just a point where I'm thinking like man, like, like what is going on? Why is all this happening, all these things, right? And everything was against us from the get go and about a 13 to 15 minute flight there.We basically what it was was there was 12 Al Shabab guys in the tree lines and they were shooting dishkas and then mortars that are at our operators. And so we had to sort of fight our way in a little bit you would say.And basically we had to do about three or four gun runs with you know, two helicopters, all 450cals, two each on, on target on that tree line, the JTAP market with purple smoke rot when we got there and did about three or four gun passes and then we land and you know, and I remember they brought in the first, the first Eagle, first American and they put him to the Ox tanks and the PJs start giving him a tracheotomy and, and then they put another Green Beret right beside me who had take some, some, some basically some ice shrapnel and they had had it wrapped already and stuff like that.And then a partner nation person that had got shot in the stomach and comes in the aircraft and I close the cabin door and we take back off and go back to the gun pattern again.And so we're shooting this suppressive fire for our brothers on the ground because the trail, the, the second helicopter if you will, they had to pick up their Cat Alphas and basically we get to a point where like okay, we're going to give one more gun pass and then we're going to egress and they picked up their guys and we egress and you know, we get, get back to the, the FOB we were at and I get more gas and bullets, you know, while the rotor's turning. And we had to go back to the area because there was one more, I think Cap Bravo that the trail had to pick up.And so we immediately went in the gunpowders and you know, I think I unloaded about half my ammo can on that tree line at that point. And they get him come back and I just remember the, the experienced gunner on the left, he was like hey.He's like, you know, did I Check the helicopter for bullet holes. And I was like, man, like, you know, never really realized it was like. It's like that, right? It's like that close.There's tracer fire going back and forth and you know, we're landing on the lzn and so I checked no bullet holes.And then I go to the front of the aircraft and I saw the aircraft commander and, and I could see that, you know, everything on his face at that point that what had happened and what it was, was the first Eagle, first American we picked, picked up when he got on the operating table when he got back, unfortunately perished, you know, from that first pickup. You know, I tell people I didn't know what sacrifice was until that day.I didn't know what one of the Air Force Corps value service before self was to that way and to that day. And you know, to see that sacrifice, it really, it forever etches that in your heart. And you know, those guys are our nation's very best man.The 11 in the 100 Heraclitus talks about. Right. And I'll never forget that moment.

Yeah, I think that those are the invisible wounds, you know, that, that you like, you suffer. It's an invisible wound. It's not something that's out on the open.And I think that it's a. I think you talk about in the book where you kind of talk about those and the trauma that you experienced because that is traumatic. It is traumatic to watch somebody die. It does stick with you.You know, the individuals that I had watched in my own career, I can pretty much tell you every one of them. You know, I can tell you when and where, how you know everything else. Because you see those constantly. They come back and haunt you.Sometimes, you know, I'll wake up in the middle of the night and still see some of them that I had just had that affected me more so than other ones. What inspired you to kind of document that and to write it into a book and to maybe find a purpose to help other individuals?Was it to help other individuals kind of experience or go through what they experience?

100 and so I had been. I had to get prolonged exposure therapy when I basically the last two or three years of my career I went back to gunships. Right.And you SOCOM has this preservation of the force and family. This, this thing where you can have a basically implac. Like a psychiatrist, a physical therapist and then a physical trainer.And I had picked up a really bad drinking habit from. Because I was at my, you know, 20 year point past that point.And I saw the, you know, the writing on the wall, and I'd hit the retirement button and that. That identity starting to fade, right?And what turned into a weekend drinking habit turned into a pint a night at least to go to sleep with, you know, with pills and stuff like that, very, very dark moment in my life. And my wife gives me that ultimatum, like, hey, like, it's either the bottle or me and your daughter.And, you know, by the grace of God, I chose them and decided to get help. And I walk in there and there's a psychiatrist. And I was like, you know, chip on my shoulder, right?And I was like, what does she know about this and that? You know, and she gave me the cliche analogy of like, you wouldn't call a dentist to fix your car. I was, okay, I'll give this a try, right?And part of that pro prolonged exposure therapy is you write everything out at first, right? That they get back to the trauma. The, you know, in my case, that missionary that. That haunts you, right? And you basically get to.Like we're doing now, you're conversing, you're. You're saying the hard parts out loud. Like, you know, and you get to where you could talk about it. What?Not like, you know, like, my first time I told her that story, I cried. She cried in that point on, she was always like, you should tell your story, you know, over and over. And I said no a hundred times.And then, like I said, and I get to that moment when I'm leaving in that identity and I've got all these words in my brain and some I'd written down. I was like, man, maybe she's right. Maybe I can pay it forward.Maybe if I write this out and if someone gets help as a result of this book, that's a blessing. That's a win.

I agree with you.I think that sometimes for those individuals that have served in any capacity like that, it's hard to find purpose again because your purpose is built into your identity again, like I said earlier, it's who you are, and it's difficult to let that go. And when it's when you have the. You grasp, luckily, you grasp the opportunity. I'm sorry I had to smile when your wife gave you the analogy.You wouldn't have a dentist fix your car. It's like, that kind of was perfect, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's what I knew. But also, like, what would happen too, is, like, I would want to drink, right? If anybody's had alcoholism, right?Like to that level, you know, it's at night when that hits you and the urges and all that stuff at 3:00am and what I would do is every time I want to pick up a bottle and, you know, go down a store, get a bottle, right, I would pick up a pen and start, you know, writing some of this Charlotte's Web, emotional words on. On anything and wake up in the morning and try to make sense of that. And, you know, two decades before and everything that comes with you. And then.And another reason I wrote it is because, you know, what if I didn't write, I think about that, like, in life, it's not what you do that haunts you, it's what you don't do. Right. And I always stuck with that.

Well, and I think that's profound, actually, because, you know, the book is raw, it's honest, it's deeply. It's vulnerable. And we have a hard time doing that. You know, any. Any warrior in any position has a hard time doing that.Hard to be vulnerable because you're always used to having to be strong and to be at the top of your game constantly. And sometimes that vulnerability, you know, afraid to let it show through.And I think you've done that in this book and you kind of told the truth and what it really takes to come back, you know, and to fight back and to come out of that hole. So, you know, I appreciate your journey in regard to that. It's a very difficult journey.My brother was going through the same thing that you're going through. He was in the Navy, and, you know, the. Some of the stuff that he had seen and experienced.He went down alcohol hole really, really bad to where it put him in the hospital. And finally he was able to start doing the same thing.He went and finally admitted he needed help and went and got help, and I think it's helping him quite a bit more.I recommended your book to him, by the way, so I'm hoping that he'll pick it up and kind of give him some inspiration, a little bit of motivation on his journey with. At the same time, you know, it takes a lot to come back from what you've come from.Is it a struggle each and every day, or have you come to understand some maybe tactics and. Or methodologies where when you see something sneaking up on you, you're able to kind of grasp a hold of it before it gets a hold of you?

Yeah. And I would say the alcoholism part, that is a struggle every day. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't right.You know, I remember I went to this with this family and I went to a casino and I look over and the, the bartenders pouring like, I think it's like Jose Cuervo like tequila shots and, and the late, the people really asked me, is it hard to not drink? I'm like, yeah, every day, Every day is that, that is a battle, right? And I think we're, we're all very like in this type of world, right?In these, these uncommon jobs, right? We're all very normal people doing a very, you know, not normal, extraordinary thing and either all or nothing type people.So I'm just never the person to be like, hey, give me three drinks, I can be social. I never understood that. I took it to extreme and wake up my livers beside me drinking a cup of coffee type things.But yeah, it is a struggle every day.

I'm sorry that you're still struggling with that. I think that in itself it shows your tenacity and your strength that you're able to overcome.We have to think about those that are around us that are kind of anchored that your wife and your, and your daughter, Correct?

Correct. Yes.

Yeah.Nine year old girl, you know, and I think that, you know, it, I, I, I can say this because my wife and my kids had to go through something similar to me when I was sitting in a wheelchair for four years, feeling sorry for myself and angry and resentful.And that whole thing is, it's a gift when we have somebody within our lives that are that close, that recognize that we just need the support and we need the help and we need to push, we need to hold our hand or to push us from behind a little bit or pull us up from the front a little bit in order to continue to, to, to move forward. Because it's a battle every day. It's a different kind of a battle than you were in.But I think trauma and, and addiction and the loss of identity kind of create a unique set of problems. It.Can you tell us how, how you kind of manage that each day so that, so those listening or viewing can that are experiencing this have an opportunity?

That's an excellent question. And I like to tell people, you know, you know, iron sharpens iron, right? And I try to surround myself with, with, I call it my 4/4 over 100 pennies.And what that, what that means is like, you know, the other day, for example, my daughter asked about like friendships and closeness and who to really trust and who has your back, right? And, and I was like, we you know, naturally driving by a bank.And I was like, you know, I was like, if you go to a teller and you give her a dollar, right? I was like, would you ask for. For 4 quarters or 100 pennies? And she asked why?I said, well, you'd want to choose the four quarters, you know, because that's the ones that, that are accountable. They hold you accountable. Right. And they don't get lost in your pocket on this. This. Right. Bumpy ride of life. Right.And so I surround my people that are positive and have the same like, of thinking and to understand and. And respect, you know, my boundaries with drinking and stuff like that and that are constantly holding me accountable and making me better.

Can I ask you this just from a. I mean, this is for everybody else out there too, but from a personal perspective, I will.It took me a long time to really admit, you know, if post traumatic stress is something that it can happen to anybody in any traumatic situation that has taken place in your life that alters it in such a way that you have to manage it each and every day. And that's something that I had to learn myself and to recognize.I did not admit that I had post traumatic stress from my career in law enforcement until it was brought to my attention and I had to work on it. And I had to recognize that it was post traumatic.And I had to recognize that there were some tools that I needed to do and some things that I needed to do, especially in the form of communication with not only myself, but those around me in regard to what I was experiencing and how to kind of change that or manage that in such a way that it stopped affecting us negatively, stopped being angry, stopped being resentful, stopped withdrawing. Is that. Is that something you talk about in your book? Is that something that we can look maybe. Is that the heart of your book?Kind of the journey back, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, the journey back. Can I get to a point in the book where. Excuse me. You know, I turned to everything except for my faith, right?Like, I know I went to the bottle, went to. To friends, I went to psychiatrist, which is great, but, you know, I'm not here to. To shove a Bible down anybody's throat. I'm.I'm not a good Christian, not a good example one. But I turned to everything except for. For Jesus, and he let me know that, you know, and Was it Matthew 11:28 says, you know, Jesus is talking.He says, come to me, all who are weary, burdened, and I will give you rest. And he gave me that Peace. He pulled me out of those ashes, and I'm. By the grace of God, I'm so.I'm thankful that he did, you know, and that was the true moment of healing for me, was that mirror. And that talk with Jesus was the most honest conversation I ever had in my life.

Which is a. That in itself is a blessing. Right. Right off the bat. Because a lot of times that's. You can't recognize that when you're buried under all of this.It's sometimes hard to recognize the light at the end of the tunnel or the shadow that's there or not the shadow that's there. The shadows overcome the light or was presented in front of you.So I. I think that's a positive thing, that you were able to recognize that and take and embrace it. So writing became like therapy and. And attribute. Both therapy and attribute to you. Correct. Or for you.

Yeah, 100. So I. That's a very good way to put it. So that really, the two reasons, right, would be to. To show the rest of America, like.Like this is what goes on, like, while you're sleeping, you know, and to show what the cost of freedom is.And the therapy part of it would be like to say it's okay not to be okay, but it's not okay to do nothing about that and to seek help for veterans, anybody, first responders, anybody that needs help.

So do you think this process and the process of writing and creating this book allowed you to reclaim your voice and some of your purpose, maybe?

Oh, yeah. And it showed me that. That I can find those exciting moments in the common. What's my mission now? Right.And someone asked me what, actually the other day, they were like, what aircraft would you fly? And who's beside you? And I said, well, I was like, I'll be flying, you know, to be the best dad I could be. That'd be the mission.And who would be beside me would be my. My wife. So that's. That's my mission now.

Yeah. I think it is nice when we are able to kind of redefine our purpose and find something that really kind of.Kind of puts us back on track with what we need to do and how we need to be and the person that we. So that's profound. And your wife and your daughter being with you on that mission, you know, is a blessing in itself because it allowed.You know, I have to smile because I can't tell you how many times I've seen marriages break up over stuff when somebody was struggling and the mental health issues and the aspects of somebody trying to come out of or crawl out of that. That arena, and they gave up. So I'm happy for you that they, that they stuck with you.

Yeah. Just. That's the best two gifts God ever gave me. And I tell people I've been called flying, especially with call sign. Right.And Uncle Tito was one of them.And, you know, all these different call signs you get, and the most important one I put in a book there is this when my daughter called me dad, you know, so that's. That's everything.

Yeah. My oldest daughter is the one that got me out of a wheelchair, so I can relate to that. Yep.She looked me square in the eye and I said, what do you want getting married? I said, what do you want for a wedding present? She goes, put your hand on each one of the. My arms of the.And leaned me right in the face and said, I want you to walk me down the aisle.

It's like, that's awesome.

Slap me in the face.

Oh, yes. Those daughters have a way to motivate us dads, you know, And I'm very, very thankful. I'm sure you are for yours. That's awesome story, Michael.

I am, I am, I am. Let's talk about other veterans, you know, and how this can help other veterans and those individuals or first responders that are.That are suffering from the same thing. You know, they say the hardest battle begins after they come home. For you, that meant facing trauma and addiction and the loss of identity.And when you look back upon that, is there anything there that you can bring forth to help anyone else that's kind of starting to experience this in particular, what's the first step that they should take?

The first step is a recognition, whether that comes from a family member, friend, or even yourself, you know, and I tell people that, you know, like I was saying earlier, this. In this life, right. You know, sometimes you see the very worst things that could happen to someone. And I don't wish that on someone.And you know, all this, all this stuff, everything is against you. Even flying, right? You could be flying. You could have merchant procedures, weathers, communications, every against. Everything's against you. And.But that day, what I've. What I've learned about, and I call it touching the face of God, is that's the day where everyone that depends on you needs you to be your very best.And, and in that darkest moment, you know, your friends will pull you out and, and just seek help and, and ask for it. Don't be afraid to do that.

Well, I think, I mean, you've become an advocate for mental health. And. And I think I saw you pitched.When you pitched me, you were talking about your book in the aspect of mental health, which unfortunately, it's not always recognized from that perspective. We don't think. We. You and I recognize this because we've experienced it both personally as well as familial wise.Like I said, my family goes way back, so we understand the mental health aspect of coming home, the mental health aspect of trying to recover from what you've seen, kind of reliving those stories over and over again. The veterans who feel isolated, and sometimes you feel isolated and ashamed. I told you, I mean, I did. Even with my own stuff, I felt embarrassed.What happened to me because my injury was. Because it was a mistake that I made. And that mistake did what it did. So I felt guilty about that for the longest time.The book, how long did it take you to write the book?

So from pen to paper, it was about seven months, you know, for a book in hand. Right. But I know that's relatively fast, but again, I had a lot of that written down for my, you know, my sister.

Journaling.

Yeah, journaling. And then at least what I thought was enough for a book. And I'll be honest, it's a very short read. It's probably a Sunday read.And I reached out to a war journalist, Holly McKay, on LinkedIn, of all things, and I was in. I was in Walmart and I sent it. And then a few minutes later, she messaged me back, I have an appointment.And what it was, was there's this word document back and forth, you know, hey, can you elaborate on this? What does this really mean? What are you trying to say here? And help me say the loud part out loud. Right. And really pull those hard words out of me.And. And then she recommended a publisher, which gave me the hardware, the beautiful cover of the book and everything like that.And, yeah, it was about seven months, which is relatively fast.

Was that. Did that help you kind of free yourself a little bit?

Yeah, because it gave me a deadline, it gave me a goal. Right. Like, I want to answer these questions. Yeah. By this date and put it in the best words I can.And, yeah, it gave me something to look forward to and, you know, just a purpose. Again with that, you know?

Yeah. Do you. Do you plan on. I mean, had you ever thought you would ever be an author? I mean, is that something that just kind of. No.

So. So I probably, to be honest, he's still reading around the fifth Grade level, man. The Appalachia. Somehow I got a book.But, yeah, even when I was younger, I wrote a poem. My publishers told me, man, it's like, I think you're a poet. I don't see that. But, yeah, I think I've always had that sort of these, These.These darkest moments in these words, in a way to paint that picture with the words. And I enjoy writing.

So, you know, sometimes I. I think, to me, my. My father was a journalist, and I grew up with writing. I grew up in a newsroom.He died at a very young age, and I was a very young age, but the time that I spent with him in the newsroom was valuable to me because what I saw was a room. Now, this is going to age me a little bit. And it was a room full of typewriters. They didn't have computers at the time, See. So what you heard was 30.30 people tapping on a, you know, a typewriter all this time putting out news stories.And it's interesting because what he told me was the written word has the ability to communicate to the masses all at once in such a way that it resonates personally. And you can touch their heart, their mind and their soul with what you put down on a piece of paper. So you.Finding that purpose allows you to take your stories, I think, and you can touch people in their heart and their soul and give them a message of hope and not perfection. And that you. You. You can. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah. And I think when you write those words, right. Whether it's typewriter, computer, even a pen and. Pen and pad, right. It's.You're putting that, you know, you're. You're putting those words in eternity at that point, you know, and when I say bleed it on the page, that.That's a good way of how you said it, that that's what I'm getting at there.

Well, I. And I. You put your soul on the page humming.

Yeah.

You tell them stories that other individuals only experience in the movies, on a TV series, or in the movies or from a book. But you're giving them the real deal, which I think.What kind of other things do you do that helps you with mental health advocacy with other veterans.

Yeah. So I did actually my first book signing in Silver, North Carolina. And what was cool about that moment was there was. It was a civilized bookstore.There was veterans, people that joined like, even, like the Marine Corps. I didn't even know that they were in the whole time I was in Right.And, you know, so we got to trade stories and one of the common text and emails and themes I get from even men and women. I used to fly with, like pilots, like, hey, they were like, you know, we appreciate you doing this. We've all like, I felt this way a long time.I just haven't seeked help yet. And then they do that, you know, and you see the fruits of that, you know, so.And, you know, and I did get a phone call, 3M phone call, right where I. I had to talk to one of my really good friends off the ledge. But, you know, it was a very emotional moment there. But he. He got help, got him to the va, got him to the hospital. So, yeah, those two things.And then in April, I'm trying to. To get to. Back to Asheville, North Carolina, with hopefully they'll let me speak there. I'm talking to someone about that now in the V8.

Yeah, I think that would be a next step, a very profound next step for you to be able to take it personally because it.It's a lot easier when you're at least talking to a group of people that really understand from what you went through, because not everybody really, you can tell somebody, but if they haven't experienced it, like you experienced it in some form or another, it's difficult to really have a deeper understanding. So that would be, I think, really good way to doing it.

Oh, yeah.

What does healing look like for you today? What does it mean to build a life beyond the battlefield now are.

Because, yeah, that healing now is being the. Being the best dad I could be, best friend I could be someone best wingman, as cliche as that sounds, and, you know, best husband I could be.And just to be there for somebody on those darkest moments, the best way I can, you know.

So do you. You. Are you planning another book?

Yeah, yeah, I'm actually working on one now. And I've been, to be honest with you, dragging my feet. I need to get back into that.And I'm also doing the Operation Song where they pair you up with a writer and got something really cool coming out with that hopefully soon, so.

Oh, very cool. So you definitely found a new purpose.

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think that, you know, it's not about me or anything like that in my career.It's about like, you know, even the people coming in the military these days. Right. Like they're going to have their war. I mean, you know, I think Plato said only dead have seen the end of war. Right.And it's a point to you have to take that tactical pause that knee and realize and the signs and symptoms like you're saying and to take that leap and to get, to choose better over bitter.

Better over bitter. I've not heard that. I think I like that. Well, I don't think I like that. I like it.

Yes. So I, you know, I went through my, I'm going through this, this drinking phase my last year and really my darkest moments there.And I reached out to a pastor and asked, you know, why is all this stuff, I'd lost a lung too, which all that stuff was going on in 2020. And I said, why is all this happening? You know, and he gave me the best words I've ever heard.He's like, you know, he's like, Anthony's like life circumstances can make you better or better. The choice is yours. And I chose better.

I think we all have a choice in life. I, I, that's one thing that I have learned over my journeys, is that we all have a choice.And we can choose to step, move forward or we can choose to stay and wallow. And moving forward is always a better option. Always a better option. How can we find out more about your book and your journeys?

You can find my book on Amazon. It's a Moon Child the Roots and wings of a US Air Force Combat Special missions aviator.

And I will make sure that there's links in the show notes to make sure they can get to it easy with a word, a click, make it easy easy for them. And they can find you on Instagram as well and some of the other social medias. Do you miss flying?

Every day. You know, and I was blessed enough to get a job here in the flight simulators at Canada Air Force Base.And I still get to not really fly, but do the, this virtual reality, basically this 80 million dollar video game with some of the men and women I used to fly with. So it's always awesome when I get to do that.

That's very cool. Do you have a pilot's license yourself?

Do I have, what's that?

Do you have a pilot's license?

No. No. So I was never a pilot. I was a gunner. Pride here, aero gunner and special missions aviator.So listen, I was, I was, they call it, you know, sometimes refer to the sweaties of the crew. I look like a coal miner at the end of a mission.

That's the way Danny, my father in law, I mean he, he worked the back end but he, when he got out, he went and got his pilot's license because he just loved flying and wanted to continue to keep flying because he said, you know, I just like being up in the air. So he went and got his pilot's license and enjoyed it. But now he's too old. He's like, 84. Yeah, 84. He won't hear this.

I appreciate. And I appreciate, you know, his service and your service as well, Michael.And you know that it's always, always coming for us that laid that foundation for all this. Right. And that's why we're free.

Thank you very much. And I'm sure that your ancestors. My ancestors were. We're all listening, so we appreciate that. Listen, this has been. This has been really great.I appreciate you sharing everything with us and your wisdom and your methodologies. But this is one more thing before you go. So do you have any words of wisdom?

Yeah, I would say the quote of Henry Ford. Whenever everything's going against you in life, you have all these troubles, tribulations.Remember, an aircraft takes off against the wind, not with it.

Profound words of wisdom. Profound words of wisdom. Well, again, honestly, Anthony, thank you very much for reaching out.Thank you for being on the show, sharing your wisdom and your journeys. I wish you well on your continued journey because it is a continued journey, and I know that you're going to succeed. I can see your resilience.You exude it, and I know that you will succeed in overcoming it. So thank you for adapting and overcoming, and thank you for moving forward in life.

Thank you, Michael. It was a real privilege and honor to be here. Thank you so much.

Today we learn that courage isn't just found in the missions that we fly or the battles we fight.It's found in the honesty to face our wounds, the strength to ask for help, as we've just spoken about a little bit ago, and the willingness to rebuild a life from the inside out. Anthony, your story reminds us that healing is not linear, it's not quick, it's not easy, but it is possible.So thank you very much for sharing your journey, your wisdom, and you're coming out from the dark into the positive light.

Thank you, Michael.

Have a great day. Have a great week, and thank you for being here.

You too, brother. Thank you.

Some battles happen in the open. Some happen in the dark. Some, the hardest ones happen in the quiet moments when no one's watching.Anthony's journey shows us that the fight to come back home is just as real as the fight to survive. And sometimes the bravest thing that we can do is to tell the truth. So that's a wrap for today's episode.I hope you found inspiration, motivation, and a few new perspectives to take with you. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to like, subscribe and follow us. Stay connected.You can find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform, and you can head over to YouTube and catch the full video version. So have a great day, have a great week, and thank you for being part of our community. Until next time, I'm Michael Hurst.This is One More Thing before you go.

Thanks for listening to this episode of One More Thing before youe Go.Check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com youm can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.